8/16 Live Monkey See. Monkey Do.

ProfessorBen · #1 04-21-2007, 08:40 AM

Harv's hand about overcalling made me think about deviating from my standard hit and raise line, (though I think it's still correct to raise with his straight w/o a super read that the raiser had a straight///but I'm not as good as him so what do I know).

Bay 101 8/16
Table is loose and passive though it jumps into aggressive spurts when UTG is involved.
UTG is a drunk, asian, LAGtard who is spewing like mad. I was sad when he moved away from the seat to the right of me as he was limp/capping K8s, raising any ace, etc.

Hero has 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, Hero coldcalls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, Button calls, Blinds fold, UTG calls, MP1 fold.

Turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, Button calls, UTG calls.

River: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero thinks and elects to go for overcalls...

Thoughts:
I'm vulnerable to the board having paired and a bigger flush. Despite that...
I think I'm good at least 2/3 of the time so I would raise if this was heads up with MP2. However...
I can't think of many hands that will call 2 bets cold.
Drunktard will call a single bet with any pair, even a 4.
MP1 probably needs a little more. At least A7 and maybe a small queen.

Edit: I forgot that Jx will call 2 bets cold [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

Yodaman · #2 04-22-2007, 03:29 AM

I like this line much much better than Harv's overcall post. As you stated, you are vulnerable to that paired board as well as higher flush, and also you have 2 players to call rather than just one.

By raising you get called by J's and with the cluelessness of some live players maybe Q's. You get raised by the house and higher flushes.

By calling you're getting called by J's, Q's, possibly even lower. (I've played with this drunk asian and I don't think he'd call a 7 here but he does make some atrocious calls).

I think you're getting the same amount of bets if you win, and saving bets if you lose the hand.

BigBadBabar · #3 04-22-2007, 03:31 AM

i like the call fine here

this is totally diff from harv's post in the following manner: having the nuts vs having nothing close to the nuts [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ProfessorBen · #4 04-22-2007, 06:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
(I've played with this drunk asian and I don't think he'd call a 7 here but he does make some atrocious calls).

[/ QUOTE ]

He actually sobered up late into the night and played reasonably. However, when he was downing Heinken's he was limp raising suited Kings and you name it. I am confident he would have called any pair at this point in time. I was so happy when he did that when I had AKo.

Is Bay 101 the best action for this limit? How is 20/40? I'm thinking about taking a stab at that limit soon.

Yodaman · #5 04-22-2007, 06:44 AM

I actually do not have the bankroll for the 20/40 game really, and I'm pushing it playing 8/16. The action is great at 8/16 at bay though, its amazing the difference between the 6/12 to 8/16 games. Goes from total weak tight tables to loose passive heaven.

Harv72b · #6 04-22-2007, 06:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Harv's hand about overcalling made me think about deviating from my standard hit and raise line, (though I think it's still correct to raise with his straight w/o a super read that the raiser had a straight///but I'm not as good as him so what do I know).

[/ QUOTE ]

My poker skillz are greatly overestimated. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

This is very much different from my river call because, like others said, you don't have nearly the nuts & you have two players left to act after you. And you obviously vomit with rage if you do raise it up, the other two fold, and MP2 3bets you.

So yeah, I absolutely like the river call in this scenario. And I'm glad the other thread at least got someone thinking. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ProfessorBen · #7 04-22-2007, 07:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]

So yeah, I absolutely like the river call in this scenario. And I'm glad the other thread at least got someone thinking. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
It's why we're here. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Note: I wasn't saying that they were very similar situations. Just merely brought up that I thought of that hand before I acted. No one likes a raise in case Jx calls? Or I just hope they raise for me?

Harv72b · #8 04-23-2007, 06:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No one likes a raise in case Jx calls? Or I just hope they raise for me?

[/ QUOTE ]

B&M game? I just hope that everyone calls & I don't lose to T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or J4.

Backstabr · #9 04-23-2007, 11:16 AM

Seems like a sweet spot for a turn raise. Also, I raise the river and make a crying call of a 3-bet (but fold to a 4, unless it's from UTG). If the UTG wasn't spewing, this might be closer.

elena_elphie · #10 04-23-2007, 04:55 PM

Does everyone like the preflop here? I would tend to fold here (but I would probably cold call T9s so 98s is pretty close). I usually like 4 people in before I cold call with 98s-76s, although since we are in MP2 if there a bunch of loose calling station types behind us I could see doing it, because a couple of them would come along. I still feel a little fuzzy about when it is okay to coldcall with good multiway hands like bigger suited connectors/pairs in pots that are going to be many handed.