Villain open shove flops in 3bet pot

[loosbastard]

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lol, people still talking about this hand?

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[bilbo-san]

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Anyway, Against an idiot/or maniac you are clearly a big favorite. Against a more typical loose/bad player, I think you are behind substantially more often than ahead when they are willing to put this much into the pot.

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Villain bets $170 into $44. I wonder, IS he an idiot/maniac?

HMMMMMMMMM. I JUST CAN'T TELL. WHAT WILL I EVER DO...

Please. Leave the estimates on ranges to those of who pretty much ALWAYS call here, and therefore get to actually SEE what players do this with.

Since you always fold here, your estimated range consists of your MUBS-oriented imagination of what bad players do this with and the sample size of hole cards that you have seen in this situation is small.

[MRBAA]

You are correct that I've played many fewer no limit hands than others here. However, I've played casino/Internet poker for almost a decade now and co-authored two poker books (The Pocket Idiot's Guide to Texas Hold'em and The Ultimate Guide to Poker Tells) . I've also played quite a bit of small stakes n/l online because it is where the fish are, and am a solid winner. However I typically play just one n/l table (6-max or hu) and one table of limit HORSE, stud or HE. So I really focus on individual player styles.

What I'm struggling with here is that there's just an assumption "okay the typical player will push for this much with a really wide range". While I've played maniacs who played this way, most bad players don't -- they will often over commit preflop hoping to hit, but when they push this big postflop, it often means this is the time they made it. Paying them off automatically seems like a pretty big hole. In fact, pushing was a great play for the villain here -- OP assumed he was an idiot and snap called drawing almost dead.

[Noam Chomsky]

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You are correct that I've played many fewer no limit hands than others here. However, I've played casino/Internet poker for almost a decade now and co-authored two poker books (The Pocket Idiot's Guide to Texas Hold'em and The Ultimate Guide to Poker Tells) . I've also played quite a bit of small stakes n/l online because it is where the fish are, and am a solid winner. However I typically play just one n/l table (6-max or hu) and one table of limit HORSE, stud or HE. So I really focus on individual player styles.

What I'm struggling with here is that there's just an assumption "okay the typical player will push for this much with a really wide range". While I've played maniacs who played this way, most bad players don't -- they will often over commit preflop hoping to hit, but when they push this big postflop, it often means this is the time they made it. Paying them off automatically seems like a pretty big hole. In fact, pushing was a great play for the villain here -- OP assumed he was an idiot and snap called drawing almost dead.

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No offense man, but you're waaaay off here. Bilbo's range was actually pretty generous, they show up with lots and lots of smaller pairs, other 7's 8's and Q's here and just pure trash.

also, and again, no offense but "In fact, pushing was a great play for the villain here -- OP assumed he was an idiot and snap called drawing almost dead." shows a deep and fundamental flaw in your thought process wrt nlhe.

[MRBAA]

Sigh. But who is "they"? Would you play the hand this way? Do 90% of the players you play against play this way? 60%? You really think most players that will call a $16 raise with 77 or A5 preflop will now push for $170 on this flop? I think only maniacs play this way, and with no read I"m not going to assume he's a maniac here.

[Noam Chomsky]

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Sigh.

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gl man.

[KLJ]

re: MRBAA

i've seen this phenomenon with a lot of donks. they flop a medium strength hand (maybe Q2 or something), and immediately go all-in. i asked one of my friends about it and he shrugged and said he didn't know what else to do. clearly there are players who flop a really good hand and immediately think "don't want to get sucked out on PUSH", it's just the former type outnumbers the latter by far

[rand]

i think i fold this-but it is clearly close, it is however pretty much a snap call on a 27Q board

[orange]

call quickly and beat KQ.

[rand]

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call quickly and beat KQ.

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wrong