river bluff - Page 2

tannenj · #11 10-01-2007, 07:24 PM

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This is bad. You fold out AK and you are banking on a reasonable player betting AK into a flop that most reasonable players don't fire AK into.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] i'd cbet AK here. it's a two-player pot. i don't know what you're talking about.

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It's not so much what you are repping that will get you to call (I think you did a good job repping AQ/KQ) it's the fact that this guy isn't gonna fold JJ,KK,AA because it's $1/2 and he'll immediately push your range to busted clubs moreso than a lone queen.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] this is 2/4, and the villain seems like a solid, handreading tag. if i rep a queen, i can get him to fold because he'll think i have a queen. i don't know what you're talking about.

Noam Chomsky · #12 10-01-2007, 09:18 PM

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you guys really think a turn bet is more believable than a river bet? can someone elaborate? i try to rep hands when i bluff rather than firing sporadically.

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People expect you to bet big hands on the turn like here
and that's an extremely dry board, on this board there's no way you're getting credit for a big hand. Also, lol at whoever said you'll fold JJ. Not saying I think this sucks b/c I think he has little often so as long as he's not the type to c/r bluff the river I don't mind this.

FGators · #13 10-01-2007, 11:37 PM

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This is bad. You fold out AK and you are banking on a reasonable player betting AK into a flop that most reasonable players don't fire AK into.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] i'd cbet AK here. it's a two-player pot. i don't know what you're talking about.

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It's not so much what you are repping that will get you to call (I think you did a good job repping AQ/KQ) it's the fact that this guy isn't gonna fold JJ,KK,AA because it's $1/2 and he'll immediately push your range to busted clubs moreso than a lone queen.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] this is 2/4, and the villain seems like a solid, handreading tag. if i rep a queen, i can get him to fold because he'll think i have a queen. i don't know what you're talking about.

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What makes you think you rep a queen more than a missed draw?

It is not a 2 player pot; the SB is in the hand. I know most TAGs check these flops into 2 people.

What makes you say for sure that this guy would continuation bet AK into a multiway pot into two people when he whiffed just because you did?

I see exactly what you are doing and it's a ridiculously [censored] up thing. You are trying to make me look clueless because that's what you want to do. You want to blame my misfortune on lack of skill and talent when you really know the advice I just gave you was genuine and that you are getting called and he's only folding AK.

Instead of taking my advice or my opinion you are trying to act like I am clueless.

deaders · #14 10-01-2007, 11:48 PM

I think you can get away with betting less because most of the hands you are folding out are A high, low underpair type hands.

fgators you are on fire tonight, rough day at work, not feeling loved enough?

FGators · #15 10-01-2007, 11:51 PM

I'm just tired of being mistreated here when I think I go out of my way of nailing like 95% of the posts I post in yet like 60% of them end up being some retarded old joke about my winrate, me running bad, me having a Word document, it's just old.

I clearly know what I'm doing and it's [censored] obvious that guy has a flush in the hand orange posted and it's obvious that this guy is calling with anything but AK or some other crazy non pair hand. If this guy has a pair he's calling becuase tannenj's line looks either like KQ/AQ or a busted club draw and people always convince themselves to call because they love to see it.

tannenj · #16 10-01-2007, 11:57 PM

my mistake, i honestly forgot about the sb. i apologize.

with that said, i disagree with you -- i think most tags cbet stuff like AK and AJ into two players on this flop. if you tend to check in these spots, i think you're an aberration, not the rule (as for me, sometimes i bet, and sometimes i check; note that the villain's stats are very aggressive).

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I see exactly what you are doing and it's a ridiculously [censored] up thing. You are trying to make me look clueless because that's what you want to do. You want to blame my misfortune on lack of skill and talent when you really know the advice I just gave you was genuine and that you are getting called and he's only folding AK.

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this thread isn't about you, it's about a river bluff.

my feeling is that solid tags tend to assume that other solid tags won't bluff missed draws. thoughts on this?

edit: fgators, please relax and try not to derail the thread. there's discussion to be had here, things aren't as obvious as you think they are. if all your lines were so money, you wouldn't be on an 800,000-hand breakeven stretch.

FGators · #17 10-02-2007, 12:06 AM

There we go again. If I challenge someone they immediately take the old cheap shot. You realize that it's been used on me a good 69029560296 times by now?

Now that that is out of the way what makes you think this guy is folding AA/KK or JJ here?

How does your line differentiate from a flush draw?

It looks like it could be AQ/KQ just as much as busted clubs.

tannenj · #18 10-02-2007, 12:12 AM

well, he doesn't have AA/KK, those hands fire the turn. i suppose he has JJ sometimes.

do you tend to put thinking tags on missed draws when they take lines like this?

FGators · #19 10-02-2007, 12:14 AM

I don't really know the answer to that question; it depends a lot on the dynamic at that point and my history with the guy.

And if I'm him I don't hate checking the turn with AA here and I think if I check the turn I kind of like checking the river to induce bets from like JJ (who may try a thin value bet that's wrong), busted club draws, and a Q that bets small thinking they are praying for a call and you get a cheaper show down than if you actually lead.

deaders · #20 10-02-2007, 12:16 AM

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Now that that is out of the way what makes you think this guy is folding AA/KK or JJ here?

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did you seriously just brag about handreading skills in another thread?

tannenj: I think the only Q you are really repping for a thinking tag is QJ, but I think his hand is weak enough here most of the time that he cant call a bet so you dont have to look like you have a queen for him to fold, if that makes sense.