Weighty issue I feel powerless to handle (Longest Post Ever OMG)

[chesspain]

P.J.,

You and I initially had the following exchange over this woman in OOT:

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The psychologist in me wonders why you are still with this woman.

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Ask the poker player in you about sample size.

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I was initially confused about this glab answer, which I assumed suggested one of the following:

1) "It's O.K., because she's manipulative and crazy only a small part of the time."
2) "There aren't many chicks out there for me."

And then in this thread you state repeatedly about how you want to help her to cope/change/manage this overwhelming and unfair situation, with seemingly little attention being paid to choices she has been making (e.g. failing to tell her mother about you, feeling unable to confront her mother about her desire to not live under such restrictive liferules, etc.).

Then, the topper:

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I'm picky about girls, and tend to get bored with them or find flaws early on,

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As I piece all of this together, I'm struck by the fact as to how so much of what you've said reminds me of the codependent women I've treated...the ones who end up with the "exciting" men with "issues," because the nice guys are boring. We therapists facetiously refer to this subset of codependent women as "chaos girls."

Without any malice or disrespect on my part, I would like to suggest that rather than attempting to figure out solutions to May's problems, you spend a little more time thinking about why you are with this woman, and why you become bored and disenchanted so easily with the average (e.g. "boring") woman to whom you are initially attracted.

Good luck to you.

Dr. chess

[samjjones]

pj -

1 Is the juice worth the squeeze? If yes, go to 2, if not, go to 3.
2 Tell her parents to eff off, move in with her, wait for father to die, and provide for her.
3 Break up with her.

[Los Feliz Slim]

pj,

A friend of mine was in a similar situation, except it was his mother that insisted he marry a M.O.T. (although no arranged marriage) and he had/has a serious case of the yellow fever. I witnessed him come up with reasons why the love of his life wasn't going to work long-term so he wouldn't have to deal with telling his mother.

It's going to take an enormous amount of strength on her part to escape the gravitational pull of her domineering mother, whether or not she escapes the marriage. People like her mother rarely, if ever, are able to step back and say "I just want my child to be happy", so I don't think that anyone reasoning with her mother is going to help. So, she's going to at least need to be prepared to make a clean break from her family for things to work between you two, something that few people are prepared to do. Even if she is strong enough to do it, the psychological damage is likely to be lasting.

My first thought was the picture of Forrest Gump running. But if you love this girl, abandoning her because her family is [censored] sucks for everybody (as the husband of a wife with a royally [censored] family I have some experience here).

Here's what I would do (assuming you really DO love her and are prepared to make some sacrifices to make it work and are strong enough to do so): tell her you love her and that you want her to be happy. Tell her you wish there was some middle ground, but you don't think there is, and that she needs to make a choice so that you two can move forward (or not). If she wants to go for it, she should really consider seeing a therapist to help her work out the issues that are bound to arise. Then, somebody gets to tell her mother that the marriage ain't happening, and the ride begins.

To reiterate, be absolutely sure you are up for what could literally be a lifetime of occasional grief, and that's if everything works out! This family situation is just one of the factors in considering whether you want to spend your life with this woman, and if dealing with this crap fits in, then you're good to go. In my case, I love my wife enough that having to deal with her family isn't too much to overwhelm my desire to be with her. Your call, bro!

[jeffnc]

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I'm having trouble understanding what Catholicism has to do with any of this.

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Me too. Catholicism doesn't go for this arranged marriage bs.

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This should be a clue for PJ. May's parents are not "traditional Chinese". They're very unusual. Not only are Christians not major proponents of arranged marriages, but Chinese are hardly bastions of the Christian religion. It's a tiny religion in China.

Thus, to answer PJ's question, they are clearly very unusual.

"Stepping up" to try to marry her now would be a very bad idea, IMO.

One option is to suggest she see a good therapist. I really don't think there's anything you can do, hard as that sounds. You have to wait it out. Keep this in mind. Let's say one day the 2 of you are married. What sort of person would you marry? Someone who was able to figure out this tough situation? Someone who catered to your will? Someone who didn't do what her mother asked simply because her mother asked it? Someone who did what her mother asked simply because her mother asked it? Will she hide her feelings from her family because of the pressure? Think of this as a way to learn more about her. It will be a clue as to how she'll manage the rest of her life, including her relationship with you.

[ratholeusoul]

I'm surprised nobody thought this issue through from the mother's perspective. I remember hearing that about a half of american marriages end up in a divorce. The number isn't really important here, the thing is that mother knows that love ("fling" in her eyes) marriages don't work. Or she might feel she gave her plenty of time to try to find a husband herself. But seeing as she's 27 and most arranged marriage girls get pimped before 15, mom might be worried that May is losing her youth and good years still to have children.

The fact is, nobody wants to be married off. Mom knows that the daughter will be unhappy early on, but feels that her choice for the husband is good enough so it'll work out eventually. Because they certainly seem to be working in asia/india/etc. Seems to have worked pretty well with mom, if she feels the daughter will eventually be happy and thank her for it.

As for your options, you're pretty much [censored]. Just don't do anything stupid like run away or get married in vegas. I think you have to intervene in the situation eventually, because May most likely won't go against the wishes of her family. At least you have some time to see if this girl really is the one. And if so, you'll just have to present yourself as a good candidate according to mom's views.


Boss' traits according to Mom's list of the ultimate husband candidage

[x] Wealthy
[x] Good social status
[x] Asian/Catholic/treats people with respect
[x] Improves status of the family
[x] Everybody wins


Boss on Fluffpop's list of ultimate male

[ ] Dave Chapelle's humour
[ ] Brad Pitt's looks
[x] Good Hygiene
[ ] Tall
[ ] Well endoved
[ ] Can fix a broken toaster


PS: Post updates as they occur.

[dcasper70]

pj,

I really know nothing about these types of cultural arrangements, but is it out of the question to have your girl try to talk Boss out of it? Maybe he's a reasonable guy who'll see that she'd be miserable and back off.

Might not be a fantastic option, but it may give you a few more outs...

Good luck.

[jeffnc]

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To make a poker metaphor out of it (and to be pessimistic/honest), I'd say I'm drawing to about 3 outs on the flop -- I can understand why most people here are recommending I muck it now. But my implied odds here are [censored] huge.

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Hear you. Just don't forget reverse implied odds. Seriously.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

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To make a poker metaphor out of it (and to be pessimistic/honest), I'd say I'm drawing to about 3 outs on the flop -- I can understand why most people here are recommending I muck it now. But my implied odds here are [censored] huge.

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to continue this painful metaphor, you need to consider the redraws (her possibly being crazy, her family continuing to be crazy for years ahead) even if you hit your hand.

I'm in the camp that basically says "all girls are crazy" but that doesn't mean you should settle for a completely crazy situation. you're just asking for grief.

[GTL]

I have a little bit of experience with a slightly similar situation. My cousin has been dating a girl who he will most likely marry for the past 7 years. She is egyptian, although she moved here when she was very young and is "american". Her parents are divorced, but her dad is a devout muslim who believes that she should be married to an egyptian. She kept my cousin a secret for many years, and then the father finally found out. He threatened to disown her, but she wasn't budging, and he has now begrudgingly accepted the relationship.

The big difference, is that she always said that her dad was never going to run her life. She hated the fact that he wanted to set her up with an Egyptian and was willing to be disowned if he didn't accept my cousin.

How could you be with a woman who would be willing to let her mother prostitute her? This is the question you need to ask yourself.

Edit - The practical thing that your girlfriend should do immediately is to tell the Boss that she isn't going to marry him under any circumstances. This should be a lot easier than dealing with the mother and will relieve a bit of stress for the time being. If she isn't willing to do this, I would seriously consider leaving the relationship.

[kutuz_off]

Boy, and I thought my (jewish) mother was possessive.

What you need is to find a...for example a jamaican struggling rapper and have May present him to her mother as her suitor. After that shock, you'll be welcome with open arms.