Tell me about Estonia and Latvia....

[2Fast]

Thinking of going either to those two places - have heard the ladies are incredible (I can vouch for Latvia - the three girls I met in NYC were amazing and nice). But also heard good things about Croatia and Slovakia. I guess I could turn the Estonia/Latvia trip into a sort of Helsinki/Stockholm/Talinn/Riga combo which also would be cool. I've been to Stockholm so would be more into Helsinki - isn't it like a short ferry ride from there to Estonia?

One thing that really worries me is that all the ladies will be somewhere else on vacation like the rest of the world in late August. Also, given all the idiotic British bachelor parties there are I'd hate to go somewhere and find out it's like being in London with 500 English hooligans running amok (no offense to any Brits!).

Thx!

[esad]

Hotter women in Estonia then in Helsinki although there are quite a few there.

Yes, there is a ferry you can take to Tallinn from Helsinki. It's pretty cheap. It also might be worth it to check out St. Petersburg. Tons of hot exotic looking women there too. There's a train you can take from Helsinki to St Petersburg that is pretty cheap. It helps if you know some Russian though.

If you go to Stockholm you might want to go to via train from Helsinki to Turku. There's a university there and fewer Americans visit so you'll stick out a lot more and be more popular in clubs. Plus Turku is kinda a cool city.

Be aware that everyone under 40 in Helsinki or Stockholm will speak English but not so much in the other countries.

Also, most people take their vacations in June or July. August should be pretty good, be aware that the weather can turn chilly though.

[b donka]

Totally agree w/ esad. Lived in Russia for four years and traveled throughout Eastern Europe. Can confirm that the ladies are smoking hot in Latvia and Estonia.

I would recommend visiting both places but I would lean toward Estonia since it’s easier to visit other places.

Love the plan of taking the train from St. Petersburg to Helsinki then boat to Tallinn (Estonia). In Finland, go to the Helsinki Club and mix it up. Be sure to bump into some ladies, apologize, then say "yes, I am American" when they ask. This move would not work well in many countries but it's effective here.

Take the slow boat to Tallinn - under no circumstances should you take the fast boat. Sure, the fast boat takes less than half the time, but everyone barfs and the ride is the terrible. No joke, I would rather break my ankle again than set another foot on that fast boat.

In Tallinn, enough people speak English.

If you're feeling adventurous, take an overnight trip to Tartu if the students are around - it's apparently the oldest university in Eastern Europe and the kids are mad fun & very cool.

The Riga angle is ok. It’s a small town but the kids love to party. If you solely care about the exotic factor or partying & chicks, this is a great stop, but the scene is equal to Tallinn. Lots of degenerate expats in Riga and it’s cheap to do things that may conflict w/ your moral compass.

Slovakia – it’s a yawn.

Be prepared to hit the clubs and stay out late.

Be sure to post a write-up if you go.

[Peter666]

In general, the economic conditions are considerably worse in all the ex-Soviet satellites, and Russia itself, in comparison to other European nations. It can be a scary experience for those not prepared for it.

However, the women are world class, especially in Estonia and Latvia. If marrying/fornicating with model quality girls is your priority, then go East young man.

[katyseagull]

I have a friend who did a stint in the peace corps and lived in Ukraine for a year. He said the economy was incredibly depressing. He said the women were cute but it wasn't worth it as the living conditions were awful and a lot of the men drank way too much and were really hostile.

Do girls in these countries seriously want to marry foreigners? Why would a guy marry a girl from one of these places? It seems obvious that any girl who is willing to do this is just using the guy for a meal ticket and will divorce him as soon as possible.

[2Fast]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a friend who did a stint in the peace corps and lived in Ukraine for a year. He said the economy was incredibly depressing. He said the women were cute but it wasn't worth it as the living conditions were awful and a lot of the men drank way too much and were really hostile.

Do girls in these countries seriously want to marry foreigners? Why would a guy marry a girl from one of these places? It seems obvious that any girl who is willing to do this is just using the guy for a meal ticket and will divorce him as soon as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points but I'd point out that US guys have the most to lose here what with our incredibly pro-woman divorce laws [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] - not so sure Europeans have as much to be concerned about - I think European laws actually tend to be pretty fair and/or favor the man in some cases. Considering the state of marriage over there in general and the fact that most of the women outside Britain, Germany and Switzerland are pretty hot in Europe I don't think they need to shack up with the E. Europeans anyway!!

Thx all for the country advice. I've been to Slovakia and actually found the ladies there pretty attractive. Also have spent a lot of time in Poland and think that they are the best looking group of women I've ever seen, so will be interesting to compare them with Estonia and Latvia.

[esad]

[ QUOTE ]
Do girls in these countries seriously want to marry foreigners? Why would a guy marry a girl from one of these places?

[/ QUOTE ]

You answered your own question

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He said the economy was incredibly depressing...a lot of the men drank way too much and were really hostile.

[/ QUOTE ]

Abuse and alcoholism amongst men in these countries is very high. Yes, there are a ton of women who honestly want to meet a nice western man. Like women around the world they want to settle down and eventually have children in a nice stable environment with a man who is normal and doesn't beat them every day.

[Quicksilvre]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a friend who did a stint in the peace corps and lived in Ukraine for a year. He said the economy was incredibly depressing. He said the women were cute but it wasn't worth it as the living conditions were awful and a lot of the men drank way too much and were really hostile.

Do girls in these countries seriously want to marry foreigners? Why would a guy marry a girl from one of these places? It seems obvious that any girl who is willing to do this is just using the guy for a meal ticket and will divorce him as soon as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that the conditions in the Baltic States are much better than they are throughout the rest of the ex-USSR. Supposedly permission to vacation there was a sought-after privledge in Soviet times. Can someone confirm/debunk that for us?

[ok2aa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a friend who did a stint in the peace corps and lived in Ukraine for a year. He said the economy was incredibly depressing. He said the women were cute but it wasn't worth it as the living conditions were awful and a lot of the men drank way too much and were really hostile.

Do girls in these countries seriously want to marry foreigners? Why would a guy marry a girl from one of these places? It seems obvious that any girl who is willing to do this is just using the guy for a meal ticket and will divorce him as soon as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that the conditions in the Baltic States are much better than they are throughout the rest of the ex-USSR. Supposedly permission to vacation there was a sought-after privledge in Soviet times. Can someone confirm/debunk that for us?

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, you can't compare estonia with ukraine (it's like camparing us with mexico).

[b donka]

Partially agree w/ Peter666. For background, I lived in Russia for four years in the late 90s and have been to both Latvia and Estonia over 5 times.
The women in these countries are world-class and model-hot. Granted not every one is, but there are an amazing number of smoking hot chicks w/ great bodies (partially cause by the fact they walk almost everywhere)

Don't agree w/ the take on the economic conditions. Both countries have been hailed for their economic progress and both were accepted as full members of EU in 2004 (an amazing accomplishment). Both were quick to distance themselves from Russia as they embraced the Western philosophy and technology. The middle class, generally regarded as the backbone of a solid economy, also developed quickly. Based on my observations of former USSR countries is that, Gen X and Y have a huge advantage b/c they were quicker to "westernize" whereas the older generations spent much more of their lives/careers following the old style. This is especially true in Tallinn, Riga, and St. Petersburg.

I'll acknowledge there is poverty in both countries - as there is poverty in New York, Las Vegas, London, and virtually ever other country in the world. I would also think that if someone did a term in the peace corps or their church, they're going to be working w/ the poor, sick et al. Naturally, one is going to think the people they work w/ are representative of a larger part of

Quicksilvre, yes you needed to get permission to visit Latvia and Estonia, but the real coveted vacation spots were on the Black Sea (generally Sochi) and Malta.

Wife meeting parties: I was lucky enough to witness one when I lived in Moscow. I had left my jacket at a club and I returned the following afternoon to retrieve it. It was ~3:00 on a Saturday and I expected to find an empty club. To my surprise, there were a lot of people and it felt like a real party - loud music, dancing, drinking, smoking. As I strolled in, a woman came up to me and said "this is a private party, you can't be here." I was caught a little off guard since she spoke English, and I was used to hearing Russian 24/7. I explained that I was going to get my jacket then bail - naturally, I was curious. Strolled inside and eavesdropped on a few conversations - no doubt about it, this was a party where they take Western men, Russian ladies, add alcohol and hope that a few marriages blossom. The guys seemed like losers - dudes who were probably pretty lonely but most seemed to be loving the attention; it was obvious they felt pretty cool. the ladies were generally on the positive side of the coin. I suspect they didn't live in Moscow but rather the suburbs or nearby towns since their makeup, dresses, and overall appearance didn't look current. I would guess the women were there for the same reason as the men - they're lonely. Plus, I presume the women would rather take a chance w/ a Western man over a Russian one b/c way too many Russians are known for their drinking, cheating, laziness, and temper (manifested through spousal abuse.)
Needless to say, I strolled out of the club w/ huge boost to my self esteem.