Mid-Limit Adjustment: Big Flops after raising.

danspartan · #1 10-01-2007, 12:14 AM

So in my recent excursions at live 15/30 (from 6/12) I've run into a number of times when I raise pre-flop then flop huge and am struggling how to get paid. This is when the table is full of largely solid players. 1-2 lags. 1-2 weak-tights, rest tags, but all competent at their style. Not a lot of cold calling. My reputation is taggish (I think, though it may be weaker than i'd like), I mostly stay with big hand raises in opened pots.

Tonights example: I'm in MP, player in front of me limps. I raise AA. BB defends, limper calls (both tags that can switch it up and lag). 3 handed. Flop AQ8 w/ two clubs. Checked to me, I bet, fold, fold. In similiar spots (usually less co-ordinated) I've also tried checking. Pretty much in all cases I'm getting no value after the flop.

I'm of course used to multi-way pots where its hammer, hammer, hammer. What adjustments do I need to make or am I just hostage to their holdings and hope they have a draw and chase (and miss [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img])?

MitchL · #2 10-01-2007, 12:47 AM

Dan when u flop 3 aces you have a stranglehold on the deck and everyone fears the A so you can assume they dont have one and will be reluctant to continue w/o a draw.

Sometimes you get unlucky and nobody has anything. There is no adjustment that can be made where you can force people to give you action. Trust me if they had anything they would've called.

I know you havent asked for specific advice about your style as it relates to the 15 game, but I have noticed that you limp in EP too much. Ive also noticed that most time you have ended up having to call a raise as a result. If this is the case then obviously you are not in a game where where open limping in Ep is profitable. Not sure what you have had in these spots, but my guess is that they are probably raise or fold type hands.

danspartan · #3 10-01-2007, 01:03 AM

Thanks. I definetly limped in a lot tonight, more than the other times I've played the 15. Actually suited ace-rag was another topic I wanted to post. I must have a 2-3 dozen of them tonight. I generally don't care if I get raised, I'm use to wanting (and getting) multi-way action. However, tonight the table was generally tight, so I often ended up 3 handed which isn't so great. I folded a couple in EP, I also open raised a couple in LP (and was promptly dominated). I also EP limped several times with 89s type hands.

HOWMANY · #4 10-01-2007, 01:06 AM

AXs is a horrible hand and open limping with it is even worse. In fact open limping at all is usually not so hot. I don't know how this game plays so it is possible that it is worth it to open limp 22-66 some of the time.

MitchL · #5 10-01-2007, 01:11 AM

Its not passive enough to open-limp with really anything.

-Put it to you this way Dan you were doing it enough to where if it folded to me I would autoraise anything remotely playable knowing that you would c/f an unfavorable flop.

danspartan · #6 10-01-2007, 01:12 AM

Friday night was a limpfest. Tonight was tight and aggressive. I obviously had some adjustement issues. I actually changed it up the last couple of orbits, but was under a time limit.

MitchL · #7 10-01-2007, 01:16 AM

It wasnt exactly tight. There were some very weak spots in the game, but there were also a couple of competent players and they will take advantage of their position.

Also, the must move was a top ten best game of the year for sure.

Munchkin Mayor · #8 10-01-2007, 02:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
AXs is a horrible hand and open limping with it is even worse. In fact open limping at all is usually not so hot. I don't know how this game plays so it is possible that it is worth it to open limp 22-66 some of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find that open limping in early position with small pocket pairs can be quite profitable. Usually you automatically get three or four callers along with the blinds. Unless someone has a monster, no raising preflop once there is about four callers. Then if you spike a set, bingo. Lots of bets with people drawing pretty thin.

If not, it is generally pretty easy to get away from your hand.

Mitch, I'd be interested in your perspective.

MitchL · #9 10-01-2007, 03:03 PM

I am a bit stupid in these spots, bc I open w/ everything. Once in a blue moon I open-limp w/ a small pair, but only bc I am on card dead tilt. I feel like it is easy to put a tight player on a small pp when the flop is small and he is giving alot of action. I open w/55+ from any spot, which is probably to loose for most, but I feel comfortable playing these hands against most opposition. There is value in open limping with these hands in EP in passive games, but those games are few and far between these days and even more rare at 15/30 and above. If I were to advocate a specific strategy for pps for the 15 game, it would be to discard all pairs up to 66 and to open raise rather than open limp. Even 66 and 77 are tough for most to play even head up, oop, but I think 66 is a safe cut-off for a competent player.

Captain R · #10 10-01-2007, 01:09 AM

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I generally don't care if I get raised, I'm use to wanting (and getting) multi-way action.

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This is bad, getting isolated OOP is sucky-yucky.

[ QUOTE ]
I also EP limped several times with 89s type hands.

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I think you should fix this too. These are fold-city at a tight table, and I still fold these at a loose-passive table.

As for your original question, there's nothing to ask. You bet the flop, they fold, you win. The other alternative is to check the flop, watch it go runner runner club and you lose. Or the turn is a K/J/T and you get in 5 bets on the turn and you lose. Etc., etc.