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  #1  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:19 PM
lazyant lazyant is offline
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Default I just lost my virginity

Hello, I'm a science/computer geek, I've been studying the game for a while (Harrigton, Slansky, Miller) and playing a bit on the intertubes without real money (I know, I know) and in a couple of house games, both of them I beat but that doesn't mean almost anything (well, that I'm not a complete newbie). I've know I got lots to learn.

Here's my notes on my first experience in a poker tournament I just played.

My objective here was to get some flight hours in live play, have fun and of course, trying to win.

I have to say that I enjoyed playing face to face with other people. It was all friendly and my biggest issues was the small elbow space at the table and how fast some decisions need to be made.
It was also surprisingly tiring.

Overall pretty happy with the overall experience and doing some introspection now on how to improve since I think I played mediocre (no big blunders but a few mistakes and very few good moves).

I was worried that I was going to make some faux pas like string-betting or something but everything was pretty amicable and I will always advertise when I was betting: "call", "raise 600".

I only had time for just second level thought: what I have, what the other may have. No reads or anything, everything very fast for me. Only a couple of times a player thought for a while (less than a minute) before folding to an all-in re-raise.
A couple of times they warned me that the action was to me but I wasn't distracted, just thinking.

About the tourney: pretty standard I think, only the final table got prizes.

Blind structure (going up every 15 minutes): 25/25, 25/50, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200, 150/300, 200/400, 300/600...
Starting with 2,000 in chips. Tables were 9-handed although they could would briefly go down to like 6 players before the tables were re-organized.

I saw about 100 hands and played perhaps a little over 10.
Lasted 2 hours, about 40 of 135 initial players. (top 30%, pretty mediocre but in a SNG I would get my entry fee back or something).

Here are the had details:

-> 1st table. Probably only two players were beginners (or more so than myself).

Limped a couple of hands at the beginning with speculative hands like suited connectors if the pot was already opened, I didn't hit any flop so in a multi-way pot I folded right away to a bet.

- A4o on BB, called min-raise. SB and button see flop which is AJ4 with two clubs, SB calls, I call. Button raises, I go all-in.
I put him on a flush draw, perhaps a pair, not very afraid of trips. Indeed he shows his flush draw, he didn't suck out and I doubled up; this is the only post-flop pot I got in the tourney and the only hand I played well post-flop.

- AQo UTG. Raised 3xBB, got one caller (big stack on BB). We checked it down on rags, he took the pot with pocket 4s. I played this badly, I should have bet at the turn (it was a 2) or at the river.
My only weak excuse here is that I thought my A high might be good here and I've seen that this guy wasn't pushed out of the pot easily so I figured I'd need a decent-sized bet (otherwise he'd call with any pair), about 1/4 of my stack to take it down and I basically chickened out.

- Q6o on SB and I call, BB called (or he min-raised and I called). Flopped trips: QQx rainbow.
He bet like 1/3 of the pot and I should have just call and let him get a free card and another chance to put money in but I raised him 2/3 of the pot and he folded right away.
This raise was actually out of character for me and I'm not sure why I did it, I guess I got impatient. So this was a second mistake.

- 22 on button. Two others on a flop 26J with two spades. Thinking of taking the pot with good bet or re-raising a bet or bet-call.
first player goes all-in (this is the one who liked to do that on flush draw), thinking of calling him but 2nd player (the big stack to my right) calls,
so now I think someone possibly has higher trips and folded. First player shows two spades, second one two 4s (!). There are no spades on turn or river and 2nd player takes the pot.

- I got two great hands almost back-to-back: AK and KK, raised 3xBB, but I get no action. I won the blinds that were still small, I think 100/200 a this point.

-> 2nd table
About 90 players remaining.

I started with 3,400 and with blinds at 100/200 I had 11 times the pot size, slipping dangerously into red zone.
I had enough to perhaps enter one more had and then if I don't win it it will be fold/all-in after that point.

We had a small break somewhere here.

Probably no beginners at this table; people talking about the poker web sites where they play (apparently the small stakes tables at fulltilt are weak) etc.

Getting blinded out. Big stacks are two to my left and one on my right.

These two big stacks on my left were raising a lot, so very hard to try and steal from button or cutoff, and didn't get any half-decent cards on those positions, actually I didn't get any decent cards in this table or the rest of the tournament except the following AT and the last hand.
So entering this table with a smallish stack (there was one like mine and one about to be blinded out) pretty much sealed my fate in the tournament.

People were raising over 1,000 pre-flop and I started to see many all-ins.

- ATs in mid-position with a raiser and caller, I folded after some thought.
With some less stack I would definitively have gone all-in with this hand but with 10x the blinds and a couple of people already in the pot (and two big stacks behind to act) I wasn't so sure.
Calling for about 1/3 of my stack I don't think is a good idea, it would only make sense if I was going to push after the flop no matter what (a stop-and-go all-in).

- 56 clubs on BB. Blinds at 200/400. One players goes all-in for 600, I call the extra 200 since I got excellent odds and he could have anything.
I was surprised nobody else called. He had the same 56 but hearts and we split the pot.

We coloured-up the $25 chips so now we only had 100's and 500's. I didn't need a rack to move the chips, they fit in one hand :-(
I got to see quads in an all-in showdown at this table. I also saw three pair of aces in showdowns in all the tournament.

-> 3rd table: folded a few hands, table got broken again before I could see a flop.
From this point on, almost every other hand somebody would go all-in.

-> 4th table. Blinds were already 300/600, I had 2,400. Only one other player with small stack, some had 40,000 - 60,000.
There were about 40 players left in total.
Most looked like seasoned players. They had customized chip protectors etc.
I had 4 hands before being caught by BB, with 2.5 times the blinds I was going to go all-in with any Ax, pair or K-medium card.
On the third hand I get 33. I go all-in, lady with ultrabig stack calls with A5o, and a 5 hits on the turn and I'm out.

The only hands that I liked how I played besides this one is the all-in call with 56s and the my first all-in where I got my only decent pot.

I think I should have pushed more in the second phase (100/200, 150/300 blinds), I was too passive.

Thanks for reading.
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  #2  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:41 PM
sapol sapol is offline
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Default Re: I just lost my virginity

sorry....tl;dr
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  #3  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:47 PM
I-Love-Poker I-Love-Poker is offline
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Default Re: I just lost my virginity

I think that was the best post by a first timer ever.
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  #4  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:57 PM
fybpm fybpm is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: california
Posts: 404
Default Re: I just lost my virginity

[ QUOTE ]
I think that was the best post by a first timer ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

I second that. That's like a 28 year old mom having sex with a virgin 18 year old and him tearin it up like Ron Jermey his first time.

Awesome
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  #5  
Old 11-20-2007, 05:11 PM
kylephilly kylephilly is offline
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Default Re: I just lost my virginity

good post, so much to learn, read the MTT forums if you are going to be serious about tourneys
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  #6  
Old 11-20-2007, 05:25 PM
HeroInBlack HeroInBlack is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gainesville, GA
Posts: 1,311
Default Re: I just lost my virginity

[ QUOTE ]
It was also surprisingly tiring.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had multi-tabled hundreds of online tournaments before my first live one, and I found it very tiring, too. You're so constantly having to count your chips and then calculate how much is in the starting pot, then divide it out to get your M; and then when you do get into a pot, you have to calculate all kinds of stuff in your head that is given to you online. It will wear you out.

[ QUOTE ]
- A4o on BB, called min-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just fold. You're gonna have to play a hand out of position that is very difficult to play out of position if you do happen to hit your ace. Unless you are very deep, just fold to the minraise.

[ QUOTE ]
AQo UTG. Raised 3xBB, got one caller (big stack on BB). We checked it down on rags,

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally, I'd say to continuation bet the flop, but you had a read, and you went with it, and I can't fault you for that. I have done the same thing.

[ QUOTE ]
Q6o on SB and I call, BB called (or he min-raised and I called).

[/ QUOTE ]

It's really best to raise or fold when it's folded to you in the SB. You volunteered to play a weak hand out of position here.
[ QUOTE ]
22 on button. Two others on a flop 26J with two spades. Thinking of taking the pot with good bet or re-raising a bet or bet-call.
first player goes all-in (this is the one who liked to do that on flush draw), thinking of calling him but 2nd player (the big stack to my right) calls,
so now I think someone possibly has higher trips and folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not just being results-oriented here: you need to put your chips in there Phil Hellmuth style on this one. People will go broke with all kinds of [censored] less than trips here. Flopped sets are going to be probably your most profitable hands in your poker career, so don't fold them.

[ QUOTE ]
- ATs in mid-position with a raiser and caller, I folded after some thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the right play.

[ QUOTE ]
I had 4 hands before being caught by BB, with 2.5 times the blinds I was going to go all-in with any Ax, pair or K-medium card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd expand that to any suited connectors, one-gappers, 2-gappers, anything with both cards higher than ten. Practically anything that isn't horrible.

It's hard to tell for sure, but it sounds like you probably don't open shove loosely enough when your M is around 5. This move works way better live than online, as people don't realize what a wide range you are doing it with, or don't want to gamble.

You are on the right track. Keep having fun.
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  #7  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:23 PM
MikeBandy MikeBandy is offline
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Location: USA
Posts: 114
Default Re: I just lost my virginity

[ QUOTE ]
I had 4 hands before being caught by BB, with 2.5 times the blinds I was going to go all-in with any Ax, pair or K-medium card. [ QUOTE ]

I'd expand that to any suited connectors, one-gappers, 2-gappers, anything with both cards higher than ten. Practically anything that isn't horrible.

It's hard to tell for sure, but it sounds like you probably don't open shove loosely enough when your M is around 5. This move works way better live than online, as people don't realize what a wide range you are doing it with, or don't want to gamble.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Good idea, especially since the only hands they've seen you push with were powerful. LazyAnt, good post.

This is a beginners' forum. If anyone wants to know what M means, click here .
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  #8  
Old 11-20-2007, 06:55 PM
pzhon pzhon is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,515
Default Re: I just lost my virginity

Excellent post. Welcome to the forums.

[ QUOTE ]

My objective here was to get some flight hours in live play, have fun and of course, trying to win.

[/ QUOTE ]
That sounds good, but know that those goals can conflict. You might be put to a decision for all of your chips early in the tournament where you should call, but you won't get as much experience on average if you do.

[ QUOTE ]

- A4o on BB, called min-raise. SB and button see flop which is AJ4 with two clubs, SB calls, I call. Button raises, I go all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]
Terminology: On the flop, you and the SB checked, and then the button bet.

I don't mind calling the minimum raise from the button, particularly if you think he does this with a wide range so an ace will probably make your hand good. However, it's a close decision.

The stack sizes are important for interpreting the flop action. If your push was a big overbet, then it might not have been good, since you might be able to get more value from weaker hands like AT or QJ with a smaller raise. It might be good to bet into the preflop raiser instead of checking. Although this might give up a chance to pick up a continuation bet, it prevents a hand like KQ from taking a free card, and you might find it easier to get all of the money in against a decent made hand.

[ QUOTE ]

- AQo UTG. Raised 3xBB, got one caller (big stack on BB). We checked it down on rags, he took the pot with pocket 4s. I played this badly, I should have bet at the turn (it was a 2) or at the river.


[/ QUOTE ]
I would generally make a small continuation bet on the flop with AQ for protection, unless that would commit me to call a push. There is a good chance you both missed, and you don't want someone with JT to pick up a pair or bluff you on the turn. Checking it down after that was ok.

[ QUOTE ]

- Q6o on SB and I call, BB called (or he min-raised and I called). Flopped trips: QQx rainbow.
He bet like 1/3 of the pot and I should have just call and let him get a free card and another chance to put money in but I raised him 2/3 of the pot and he folded right away.


[/ QUOTE ]
In a tournament, when everyone folds to your Q6o in the small blind, you may want to consider either folding or raising.

If you limped in and your opponent checked, then you have a decent time to slow-play. It is very unlikely that your opponent has a decent hand, so you can let him bet whatever he wants on the flop and turn, and then hope he has picked up a pair with which he can call a bet on the river.

[ QUOTE ]

22 on button. Two others on a flop 26J with two spades. Thinking of taking the pot with good bet or re-raising a bet or bet-call.
first player goes all-in (this is the one who liked to do that on flush draw), thinking of calling him but 2nd player (the big stack to my right) calls,
so now I think someone possibly has higher trips and folded.

[/ QUOTE ]
Easy call. Don't panic. It's much more likely that someone has top pair, and someone else has a flush draw, or that you are up against top pair and an overpair, than that someone has a higher set. There just aren't many possible higher set hands, 3 combinations each of 66 and JJ, while there are a lot of possible J9, JT, QJ, KJ, AJ, QQ, Axs, and Kxs hands with which people like to limp.

To call, you might need to win 25-30% of the time, depending on how much dead money is in the pot. My guess is that you will win this 70% of the time.

[ QUOTE ]

- I got two great hands almost back-to-back: AK and KK, raised 3xBB, but I get no action. I won the blinds that were still small, I think 100/200 a this point.


[/ QUOTE ]
Raising was right, but it's hard to get paid off if you haven't raised for a while. It's more likely that those hands would have gotten action if you had been stealing a few blinds earlier.

[ QUOTE ]

Probably no beginners at this table; people talking about the poker web sites where they play (apparently the small stakes tables at fulltilt are weak) etc.


[/ QUOTE ]
I ran into some well-known winning 2+2-ers in my first live tournament. That was -EV. But most poker players at all levels lose, even the ones who say that they win, and who believe that they are above average.

One old guy criticized me repeatedly for not keeping my chips stacked the way he liked. I concentrated on getting my chips in while ahead and on good semibluffs, while he was doing the opposite.

[ QUOTE ]

Getting blinded out. Big stacks are two to my left and one on my right.

These two big stacks on my left were raising a lot,


[/ QUOTE ]
Let me guess: They raised a lot to become big stacks, not because they were big stacks. They were probably raising a wide range. Don't wait for a premium hand to get involved. Reraise them with hands that do well against their range if they would be committed to call, and reraise them with other hands like low pairs and suited connector if they are not committed to call, in addition to premium hands.

[ QUOTE ]

- ATs in mid-position with a raiser and caller, I folded after some thought.


[/ QUOTE ]
Whether that was right depends on how tight the players were. A reraise from you will probably mean there would be dead money in the pot, as someone may reraise to isolate you or fold in fear of a reraise. That means you actually don't have to be ahead of a caller's range to push, even if you know you will be called. For example, if you put in 2000 and the pot will be 5000 when one player calls, you only need to win 40% of the time to be happy you got involved. It takes a tight range for ATs to win less than 40%.

This is a common tournament situation that people overlook because they don't like to think about playing a short stack.

[ QUOTE ]

I think I should have pushed more in the second phase (100/200, 150/300 blinds), I was too passive.


[/ QUOTE ]
Probably. You'll know next time. Don't kick yourself if you push with KT and run into AK or QQ, as you have seen what happens when you blind down.
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  #9  
Old 11-20-2007, 07:10 PM
Doc T River Doc T River is offline
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Default Re: I just lost my virginity

A really good first post and makes me think of my first poker tournament.
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  #10  
Old 11-20-2007, 11:31 PM
Boise123 Boise123 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 382
Default Re: I just lost my virginity

[ QUOTE ]
A really good first post and makes me think of my first poker tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

You did better then I did in my first tourny, good luck
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