AP infinity plus one - New AP Statement

[ikestoys]

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once they have done their audit, everyone has their money back who was cheated and someone has gone to cr and they release their official statements, if the vast majority of players are still not happy then they wont survive simple as that. give it time.

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i don't see this happening tbh

[adanthar]

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At the risk of sounding pompous, I graduated with honors from a "top ten" US Law School (Go Wolverines!). He makes little sense to me, either. I did sleep through most of 1L, though.

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I did not graduate from there with honors largely because way too much poker was involved. also our team sucks. but yes that would be 0 for 2 on sense-making

[adanthar]

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I totally <3 how AP has SO many inconsitencies, lies, and general negligence in responding to the situation....and nothign will ever happen to them

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welcome to AC-land, where the market is gloriously free

[Wahoo73]

Nat-

On a different Mark Seif-related issue, I recall early in your analysis of the infamous Potripper tournament HH file you discovered that account #363 had observed Mark Seif's table for a short period of time. But in reading all of these threads I never saw any description of the HHs for the hands that #363 observed. Was there anything out of the ordinary about them? Did Seif win any of them in unusual fashion or did he make any extraordinary laydowns? Was there any chat between Seif and observer #363?

Inasmuch as I have been following this debacle very closely from the beginning, but am just now making my first post about it, let me also add my thanks to you, adanthar, marco, josem, snagglepuss, etc. for performing extraordinary detective work and bringing this all to light. Although I have disagreed with some of your conclusions about Absolute Poker and your opinions regarding what AP's future ought to be, I am truly in awe of not only your determination to shed light on the truth but your integrity as well. I believe all of you collectively have performed a great service for the future of on-line poker which will not be fully realized for some time to come, inasmuch as I think this may be just the tip of the "Scandal Iceberg."

It certainly will be interesting to see how Absolute Poker enforces its own rules against the known cheaters, and it will be even more interesting to see how the KGC enforces its rules regarding Absolute Poker's failure to comply. One thing is certain in my mind: even if Absolute Poker is now under the control of honest and honorable people (a questionable assertion, IMO), their continuing contradictory, misleading and half-truthful statements indicate to me that they are grossly incompetent.

[ammbo]

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Mark Seif says (11:03 PM):
yes because the guy i played against and his stupid lying friend made posts on a forum that i cheated them

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This comment speaks a great deal to Mr. Seif's character as well as his comments about Dan Druff. I understand that this is a tough spot for him, but name-calling and antagonizing are not productive, espcially given that he is a spokesman for an embroiled company.

[zen_rounder]

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once they have done their audit, everyone has their money back who was cheated and someone has gone to cr and they release their official statements, if the vast majority of players are still not happy then they wont survive simple as that. give it time.

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i don't see this happening tbh

[/ QUOTE ]i fear you could be right depending on the continuing effectiveness of this forum and others like it to not stand for any BS.at the end of the day poker = greed.

[crzylgs]

moar good stuff in the regs:

268. An employee, whether a key person or not, of an Authorised Client
Provider must not take part in an authorised game if directly involved in
functions related to the conduct of the game.

although 242 could be a loophole to the 5-year recordkeeping rule if they have/can forge the right documents.

The Commission may, by written notice given to a an Authorised Client
Provider:
(a) approve a place (the “approved place”) nominated by the
Authorised Client Provider as a place for keeping the Authorised
Client Provider’s gaming records;
(b) specify a gaming record of the Authorised Client Provider (an
“exempt gaming record”) that is not required to be kept at the
approved place;
(c) specify a gaming record of the Authorised Client Provider that
may be kept temporarily at a place other than the approved
place, and the period for which, or the circumstances in which,
the record may be kept at the other place;
(d) approve the keeping of information contained in a gaming record
in a way different from the way the information was kept when
the record was being used by the Authorised Client Provider; or
(e) approve the destruction of a gaming record the Commission
considers need not be kept.

[h11]

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Unfortunately for AP, the Kahnawake Gaming Commission's Regulations Concerning Interactive Gaming require "Authorized Client Providers" to keep a gaming record for "five years after the end of the transaction to which the record relates".

In other words, AP should be keeping HH for five years otherwise they are breaking KGC's rule number 245.

The only wiggle room here is KGC says in rule 246, that rule 245 does not apply if the gaming record has been destroyed under approval of the KGC.

http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommissio...ve%20Gaming.pdf

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This is important. Someone needs to notify the KGC of this conflict between their rules and AP's actions.

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Since this AP matter is the biggest problem the KGC has ever faced I am pretty sure they are reading this thread. So someone should email them about this, but I bet they already know it now that it has been posted.

[h11]

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KGC is in a position to cripple AP if they failed to keep their HHs for 5 years.

From the KGC regulatory document:

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289.

Unless another fine is specifically provided, if the Commission, in its sole
discretion determines a Licence holder, Authorised Client Provider, key
person or Approved Agent has breached any provision of these
Regulations, the Commission may impose a fine for each instance of
such breach of not less than One Thousand ($1,000.00) Dollars and not
more than Twenty Thousand ($20,000.00) Dollars.

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We're talking about potentially hundreds of millions of gaming records at a minimum fine of $1,000 per record.

Ouch!

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I dont think the fine can be that high, because at a certain point AP would decide that being within the KGC world is too expensive and would say - no, we won't pay it. KGC would then yank their license, and AP would no longer be able to use the servers on that Reservation. But there are other places AP could run its servers. I don't think KGC has any other way to enforce payment of fines other than to deprive them of using the servers.

[Guthrie]

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Unfortunately for AP, the Kahnawake Gaming Commission's Regulations Concerning Interactive Gaming require "Authorized Client Providers" to keep a gaming record for "five years after the end of the transaction to which the record relates".

In other words, AP should be keeping HH for five years otherwise they are breaking KGC's rule number 245.

The only wiggle room here is KGC says in rule 246, that rule 245 does not apply if the gaming record has been destroyed under approval of the KGC.

http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommissio...ve%20Gaming.pdf

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This is important. Someone needs to notify the KGC of this conflict between their rules and AP's actions.

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And how fortunate he wasn't banned by the mob before posting it.