$50r - Another Easy Preflop Spot That Pisses Me Off

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
re: earlier i just hate raise folding to any sort of aggressive player because it seems that no one folds any sort of pair, even 22. Now, in this particular situation I would prob call tighter vs stealthmunk but usually I treat AT in this spot as the pure nuts and play it for a raise/snapcall :O

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Once you raise and get reraised, you simply calculate what you think your opponent's range is and then call if the odds are in your favor. Of course you need less than the 40.5% that I quoted earlier. Doing the math again I get that you need just 39.2% from a late position raise, which actually isn't that huge of a difference and quite possibly a clear fold against their range.

[hasuuser]

Open pushing ATo from HJ for 16bb is -cEV unless the calling range is too tight. If you want the exact numbers and math i can do that and post in a few hours.

I assume normal calling range would be top 7-8%. Besides dont forget about ICM. It may not be as important as in SNGs, but its defenitly a big factor.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Open pushing ATo from HJ for 16bb is -cEV unless the calling range is too tight. If you want the exact numbers and math i can do that and post in a few hours.

I assume normal calling range would be top 7-8%. Besides dont forget about ICM. It may not be as important as in SNGs, but its defenitly a big factor.

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Its not 16x BB as I already discovered. There are 50 chip antes.

[Bakes]

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re: earlier i just hate raise folding to any sort of aggressive player because it seems that no one folds any sort of pair, even 22. Now, in this particular situation I would prob call tighter vs stealthmunk but usually I treat AT in this spot as the pure nuts and play it for a raise/snapcall :O

[/ QUOTE ]

Once you raise and get reraised, you simply calculate what you think your opponent's range is and then call if the odds are in your favor. Of course you need less than the 40.5% that I quoted earlier. Doing the math again I get that you need just 39.2% from a late position raise, which actually isn't that huge of a difference and quite possibly a clear fold against their range.

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Yeah I know....just saying that the ranges are wider here than you are giving credit for imo. Against 22+ AT+ KQ we are getting the proper odds.

[Pudge714]

betgo,
If I limped. I think limp fold could be better than lrrai your hands looks really fos and unknowns raise really tight over limps.

[curtains]

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[ QUOTE ]
re: earlier i just hate raise folding to any sort of aggressive player because it seems that no one folds any sort of pair, even 22. Now, in this particular situation I would prob call tighter vs stealthmunk but usually I treat AT in this spot as the pure nuts and play it for a raise/snapcall :O

[/ QUOTE ]

Once you raise and get reraised, you simply calculate what you think your opponent's range is and then call if the odds are in your favor. Of course you need less than the 40.5% that I quoted earlier. Doing the math again I get that you need just 39.2% from a late position raise, which actually isn't that huge of a difference and quite possibly a clear fold against their range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I know....just saying that the ranges are wider here than you are giving credit for imo. Against 22+ AT+ KQ we are getting the proper odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well antes change EVERYTHING. We open raise more with antes, other players reraise more because our range should be looser. etc etc. The entire hand is completely different than what I was talking about before I knew there was an ante.

[betgo]

With no antes, an open push would be for 11x pot, and definately cEV-. With no antes, I would raise small nad generally fold to a reraise.

[hasuuser]

Ok just finished runing the math. With those stacks, 14 ppl left, with top 9 payed and blinds at 400/800 and 50 ante, the push is - cev.

0.0718 - push
0.075 - fold

The push -EV is huuuge.

[curtains]

Huh? there are 14 left with 9 paying? Where'd you get that from?

[Bakes]

the arse apparantely