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  #1  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:00 PM
gito gito is offline
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Default Questionable preflop call and a double belly buster

I played this about an hour ago and I think I played it really bad.

This was one of the first hands since I joined the table, so no reads, plrs/flop is %40.

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

I don't think I should have called here. SSHE says I shouldn't, I am out of position and my hand may be dominated and isn't even suited. I was probably a bit on tilt, because of the two bad beats on another table and I thought there were already 7.4 SBs there, so I gave it a shot.

Flop: (8.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero calls.

I checked because somebody had to have an ace, when action was back on me I didn't know if I should raise, I had a slight equity but I was out of position. So I just called

Turn: (5.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

This was a definite c/r right? At this point I was thinking about the decisions I made earlier, I wasn't concentrating enough on the hand, and without thinking I bet as soon as 9 came up. Huge leak. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

River: (8.70 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 11.70 BB

I felt really bad after the hand. Please share your thoughts.
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:03 PM
Aaron W. Aaron W. is offline
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Default Re: Questionable preflop call and a double belly buster

Preflop is no good against an UTG raiser. Make it suited and you're in much better shape.

I like the turn donk simply because KK/QQ might suddenly check the turn, and then you're in trouble for not collecting any bets on the turn. You might also get bonus action from AK/AJ.
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  #3  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:13 PM
knockonwood knockonwood is offline
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Default Re: Questionable preflop call and a double belly buster

Aaron, i would have called here PF getting 7.5:1?

I would normallly c/r the turn here. I can't see KK or QQ, or checking the turn here at .05-.10. More likey UTG has AK, AQ, AJ and will bet out IMO.
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  #4  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:24 PM
LukeSLTS LukeSLTS is offline
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Default Re: Questionable preflop call and a double belly buster

It depends on the PFR% of the UTG player but I fold the QJo from the BB against the majority of players.

Flop is fine. Check raising out of position with only two players is not good since you have an excellent chance of getting three bet or scaring out MP2.

You are correct, the turn is a great spot for a c/r. Original preflop raiser likely has at least a big ace and will fire again most of the time.
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  #5  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:15 PM
Harv72b Harv72b is offline
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Default Re: Questionable preflop call and a double belly buster

Heads up I fold preflop against most EP raisers. With a third player in the pot I think we have enough to play this hand; with a 4th player this is an easy, easy preflop call.

Flop &amp; river were perfect. You should have check/raised on the turn, but you already know that. Nh. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:13 AM
TimovieMan TimovieMan is offline
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Default Re: Questionable preflop call and a double belly buster

*grunch*

Preflop call depends on a read of the UTG raiser. If hes an unknown, or a tight raiser, QJo goes in the muck. If hes loose, its a call.
Whats the SB on that limit? 2c or 3c? If its 3c Im inclined to call a tad bit looser but not that much. This is still against an UTG raiser.

With a hand like this I often check-raise, since we have a strong draw. But seeing how CO folded (and thus only two opponents remain), a simple call is more appropriate.

The turn is a definite check-raise IMO.
The donk is not all that bad, however, but that still depends on a read of UTG and his perception of us, and whether or not how strong you think his hand is. If you think he can beat two-pair, by all means donk. Donking looks more like I now has two-pair than it looks like a straight.
But Id still rather trap the field with a c/r.
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:13 AM
BadBigBabar BadBigBabar is offline
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Default Re: Questionable preflop call and a double belly buster

pf is fine with me and the turn is an easy c/r
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:29 AM
neurotiq neurotiq is offline
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Default Re: Questionable preflop call and a double belly buster

I think preflop is fine, getting 7.5:1.

I like your idea of c/r'ing the turn. Now for the execution... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2007, 09:22 AM
KitCloudkicker KitCloudkicker is offline
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Default Re: Questionable preflop call and a double belly buster

pf is ok if you dont suck post
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  #10  
Old 11-30-2007, 12:15 PM
Sarge85 Sarge85 is offline
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Default Re: Questionable preflop call and a double belly buster

[ QUOTE ]



Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls.

I don't think I should have called here. SSHE says I shouldn't, I am out of position and my hand may be dominated and isn't even suited. I was probably a bit on tilt, because of the two bad beats on another table and I thought there were already 7.4 SBs there, so I gave it a shot.

[/ QUOTE ]


Dude, don't give yourself bad reasons to cold-call with large off-suit garbage against an UTG raiser.

If you take away just one thing from this thread - let it be not to cold-call raises with big off-suit cards.



[/ QUOTE ]

Flop: (8.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP2 calls, CO folds, Hero calls.

I checked because somebody had to have an ace, when action was back on me I didn't know if I should raise, I had a slight equity but I was out of position. So I just called


[/ QUOTE ]

UGH - Somebody had? to have an Ace. Do you raise only with hands that have an Ace it it?

If you take two things from this thread - let the other be that not all PF raises mean big Aces.

With 8 pretty sweet outs there will be times you bet this flop, times you check-raise this flop, and times when you just check call.

Checking-and-seeing is the best line here. If you bet, UTG could raise out the rest of the field, and you'd just soon have them in. IF CO hadn't folded the flop, you could consider CR'ing. I don't have Pokerstove on this computer, but we must be pretty close to a value raise if he calls.

On the turn your hand is very disguised. I don't mind going for a CR here, you have aggression next to you and the potential to trap bets.

You did play the river perfectly. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
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