Raise/limp AK, AQ, AJ?

[swifttarrow]

I've had a lot of trouble playing AK, AQ, and AJ when I don't hit. Since most of the 3/6 live games have 5-6 players to the flop, what's the best strategy? I thought about raising preflop and checking on missed flops (both IP and OOP), or simply limping more in EP to encourage hands like ace rag to stay in. Obviously, if I flop a nut flush draw to go with my hand, I'll gladly cap the pot; however, when flops like 10 j 4 hit, I have the most trouble. Do I c-bet hoping to take a free turn card? Lean towards checking against aggressive opponents? How often should I call a turn bet with only overcards in multiway pots, and how much do I have to worry about being reversely dominted? (assuming I close the action)

[BadBigBabar]

buy and read 'getting started in holdem' and then later 'small stakes holdem'

[BadBigBabar]

in general i raise all of these pf if it's not raised before me, in a 3/6 live game. i can't give you a set plan to always follow on the flop -- that comes with experience. if there were an easy to follow guide the game wouldn't be as fun [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jesse8888]

As usual, I concur with the big green elephant. If it's not raised before me, I'm raising these hands, except maybe AJo from the blinds....and just maybe not.

As for after the flop, it depends on many factors. Here are some important ones:

1. Is there any chance a c-bet will win the pot right now? If the answer to this is yes, you practically have to c-bet.

2. Do I have an equity edge? If the flop is TJ4r and I have AKs against 6 opponents, I probably have an equity edge against the field. I can bet for value.

3. Do I have the best hand? On a flop of 662 against 3 opponents, my UI AQo is probably still winning. I should bet for both the above reasons.

4. Will a bet get everyone to check to me on the turn. If you're on the button, raised PF, then bet the flop and get 2 callers, they will almost certainly check to you on the turn, giving you a free card.

[mikeca]

I would always raise all of those hands preflop from any position except AJo, which I usually don’t raise from the SB or BB when there are lots of limpers already in the pot.

When you miss the flop, the short answer is it depends. It depends on the texture of the flop, how many opponents you have, whether your opponents are tight, your position, your table image, and probably other factors.

If you c-bet the flop, you are representing a big pocket pair. In most B&M 3/6 they won’t believe you and will call you down anyway. Even if you fold the turn unimproved, this c-bet may generate more action when you do have a big pocket pair or when you have raised with something like 99. In most B&M 3/6 games, you are not going to bluff people out of the pot with an unimproved AK.

In general I tend to c-bet more from late position and check more from early position. The c-bet from late position will sometimes allow you to take a free card on the turn. Assuming you have 2 overcards to the flop, you may have 6 outs and you only need 6 or 7 to one odds to justify peeling the flop, which you will generally have if you raised pre-flop and got 4-5 callers. The problem is top pair will frequently lose to two pair or better in these games, so you need to discount your outs. I usually figure 2 overcards are worth 3 or 4 outs. You also need to discount your outs if some of them could make a flush or straight for someone else. If another player is first to bet at the flop, then it depends on reads on that player. Don’t forget to include all your outs, such as gut shot straight draws or back door flush draws. They should make it more likely you will peel the flop.

If I do not improve on the turn, I don’t usually bet or call again, unless I have a flush/straight draw. If I am in late position, I will take a free card when I can. If lots of people called on the flop, then the pot may be big enough to justify a call if you really had 6 outs. On the other hand, the more people called on the flop, the less likely top pair is going to be good enough to win.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

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I've had a lot of trouble playing AK, AQ, and AJ when I don't hit. Since most of the 3/6 live games have 5-6 players to the flop, what's the best strategy?


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It depends on things like the actual cards on the flop and what kind of opponents you are up against. The more opponents I have who tend to lead out on the flop if they hit, the more likely I am to c-bet if it's checked to me when I miss, for example.

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I thought about raising preflop and checking on missed flops (both IP and OOP), or simply limping more in EP to encourage hands like ace rag to stay in.


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I don't hate the idea of sometimes limping in EP, especially if you are at a table that starts to respect your EP raises. I've also been thinking about not raising as often when I have a couple of relatively tight passive players in ahead of me who are limping with hands like AK and QQ and folding hands like 76o and A8o.

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Obviously, if I flop a nut flush draw to go with my hand, I'll gladly cap the pot; however, when flops like 10 j 4 hit, I have the most trouble. Do I c-bet hoping to take a free turn card? Lean towards checking against aggressive opponents?


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If you have a hand like AK or AQ on that flop, you have a hand that has no problem calling a raise if you bet. (You'd probably want to fold, though, if you bet and it gets capped before the betting comes back around to you.) You should usually bet, and if you miss, you shouldn't always take a free card on the turn.

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How often should I call a turn bet with only overcards in multiway pots, and how much do I have to worry about being reversely dominted? (assuming I close the action)

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That depends on the size of the pot and the hand ranges of your opponents doing the betting. SSHE uses a method of discounted outs in determining your odds to account for the possibility that your overcard pair draw outs are not 100% clean. If you do hit one of your outs, you might not want to raise if certain players bet into you.

[Grease]

Raise all of them if they're suited in any position with any amount of limpers. If they're offsuit, I raise AK and AQ always, and always open AJo if I'm not in the blinds (sometimes I might muck it UTG, but only if it's a bad game, and I play all my limit live, so I never play in bad games [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img])

That said, when you're OOP and you whiff against the world, there's not much you can do. Check/call the flop if the board is raggedy and you think top pair can win, but often times, you kinda have to hope that you flop at least some backdoor draws or a pair. If you're IP against fewer players, you can start betting UI hands a little bit, but winning in live 3/6 is all about value-betting when you hit. It sucks when you routinely miss, but such is life. Being to raise/cap with big draws means you're ahead of the curve in games like this, and it's good to see you're willing to ram and jam if you have the best of it, not just if you flop a pair.

I would tend to bet the flop if I have a decent draw (gutter and a BDFD) and just check if the board is really coordinated and I have nothing (black AK on a red 568 board.)

If you're HU, I would tend to bet the turn with nothing and check behind with weak draws, since if you get C/R'd you'd wish you had taken the freebie, but if you have nothing, you shrug and fold. This applies less in loose passive games because getting HU on the turn is a small miracle in itself, and getting C/R'd is pretty rare as well.

Again, as we're all said before, there's no cut and dry way to play hands (based on the way you phrase your hands, you definitely understand this too) and you have to use your head and play poker. Playing UI overs OOP is the hardest thing to do, IMO, and I think we all suck at it more or less (except for a few people on these forums, and I'm sure you know who you are).