People who refuse to help themselves

[Chaostracize]

Little background on me first. As some of you may know, I have recently become a real estate agent. This happened about 4 months ago. I'm really not interested in being an agent, but I figured it'd help me with my ability to sell and I'm extremely interested in investing in real estate. I do this for a little while, get my broker's license, and then I can focus on starting a business and keep my eye on nthe market.

Every day I'm involved with real estate agents, lawyers, CPAs, mortgage brokers, etc. People in the business, and some of which who understand it pretty well.

Being interested in investing, I find myself talking about it a decent amount with people I come in contact with. I make it no secret that this is what I want to do and any kind of dialogue I have with people will add to my store of information. And there are a good amount of people who know what they're talking about.

The thing is, that out of all of the people I know, only 2 people invest or have invested (another agent and my own broker). This is absolutely insane to me.

I talked with my new CPA last week. There's a sweet multi-unit investment property that I'm interested in, but I would need investors, so I was wanted to know about forming partnerships and the myriad of tax benefits to being an investor. He talked for an hour and 5 minutes straight, only stopping to listen to my more specific questions. Point after point, and if I hadn't been convinced before then I would have definitely been convinced after. When he was finished, as I was about to leave, I just had one last question.

"How about you? You know so much about this, do you invest yourself?"

He paused. Smiled. Thought about the question. And responded:

"You know, I get that question a lot. I just sat here for the last hour telling you about all the benefits of investing. But I just don't have the time to do it. Besides, if my wife were involved she'd be coming around the house all the time, she's really protective, and I don't know if I could deal with that. Some of the successful guys I know who have done this have been really involved, too. They'd have paint on their hands any time you'd meet them, you know?"

So I just shrugged, told him thanks, and went on my way.

One of my possible 'investors' is a friend's father. He's a really great guy, I'm really close with the family, but I think he's more interested in the idea of investing as opposed to actually doing it. I've come to him with multiple opportunities, but there is always another stipulation. First time, it was that he wanted a partner. Second time was that the ROI needed to be better than the S&P (reasonable). Third time, was that he needed a finite exit strategy. When I finally had an idea of exactly what he was looking for, I showed him my investment opportunity and now he is interested purely in a property where he is an equal partner with me while I manage the property. The problem with this is that if I find a property like the one he is talking about, I will be investing in it myself...I explained that the only properties I would be showing him were properties where he could invest in himself, or a property that I can't come near affording. I have ceased communications on talking about investments with him.

This is a theme that can be applied anywhere, though. People in fields who are simply ok with mediocrity. I'm not saying that being rich is the end all be all, I'm simply using investments as a jumping point. Think of any extremely intelligent in any store, and think about how successful they could be if they were just working for themselves.

How many times have I heard someone 40+ mutter to themselves: "I wish I had done that when I was your age."

And it's so hard for me not to jump out of my seat and strangle them. So do it now! It's never ever too late. In 10 years they will be saying that they wished they had done something when they were 40. And people just never learn. It's never a good time now, but 10/5/1 year(s) ago was when they should have jumped on board. This just repeats over and over with just about everyone I know.

"What you are doing is so smart, I wish I had done that."

"Why don't you start now?"

"I'm too busy. It takes money to make money. It's too late now. I don't want to risk my money. I have to pay for my kids' college."

Etc, etc, etc.

So, EDF, what is it about people that make them refuse to help themselves? People who know firsthand how they can make themselves into extremely successful people?

Like I said, the issue of investing is meant purely as a jumping off point. This applies to anyone thinking about starting a business and not doing it to people being ok with middle management and not attempting to climb whatever ladder they have to climb.

I perfectly understand the fear of building from nothing and being afraid to lose it. But is that really all it is? Is it just that fear?

Maybe as a card player I understand the inherent risks of everything I do, which is why I don't mind losing a bit because I understand that even though I risk money I stand to gain so much more.

This has gotten a bit long winded, but I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts.

[JJSCOTT2]

"It takes money to make money."

This is always the one that has bothered me. I'm only 23 years old but I recently graduated from college and am now a grad student (MBA). I've always thought of myself as the more entrepreneurial type, that I wouldn't be happy slaving away for someone else in a cube somewhere--of course maybe that's just because nobody really wants that, I don't know--and that I want what I do to make money directly for me. What I feel I lack is something original, interesting, and exciting in the way of an idea that I can take and use to raise funding. Of course like you're saying, there are plenty of things that you can do and make a lot of money at without having innovative ideas, you just need to have a desire, work ethic, and some level of knowledge about the business. But in that case, where does the money come from, isn't it true that you need to 'have money to make money'? You can't just go to a bank and say hey look, I have no qualifications but I really want to do this and think I could make money at it, that's not how it works.

[Tien]

From my personal experience, 90% of the people out there just don't get it. 90% of people would rather stay in their "comfort zone" and do what they have been always doing. They don't want to go out, learn a new skill, start investing, start a business ,etc etc.

Doing these "new" things requires a lot of hard work that they aren't used to doing. The "hard work" requires using their minds in a way they are not used to using it. Fear of the unknown keeps many of them at bay and they cover up their lack of activity with whatever pathetic excuses they can muster. They make excuses for their lack of activity simply because they are conditioned to do so and have been conditioning themselves their whole lives. If they are too afraid of doing something because they don't understand how, they will merely make up an excuse to cover up their lack of guts.


My advice is this:

Don't do business with the people that won't add value to your business or your life. Life is too short being agitated over frustrating business partners or potential business partners. Just move on and keep trying to find that person that "gets it".

BTW, I am a real estate investor and you wouldn't believe the negativity / cluelessness / useless advice I got when I first started out. At times it was extremely frustrating to keep dealing with people that sap your mental energy and time, but you need to learn to look pass that and keep searching for the people that add value to your life instead of the people that take value away.


I have a lot more to say, but it would take 2-3 pages to say it.

[7ontheline]

I think it's a combination of laziness/avoidance of the work necessary and fear of failure. Once you are in a comfortable (though not great) place where if you stick it out you know you'll have enough (though never an excess) it's probably harder than you think to put yourself out there and take that risk. Not everybody has that gambling mentality, the members of this forum notwithstanding. When you are older with bills and people depending on you risks become that much more scary. What if you get sick? What if things go poorly? It brings to mind wacki's thread, although I doubt most chances at taking risks could have such truly dire consequences.

[Tien]

[ QUOTE ]
"It takes money to make money."

This is always the one that has bothered me. I'm only 23 years old but I recently graduated from college and am now a grad student (MBA). I've always thought of myself as the more entrepreneurial type, that I wouldn't be happy slaving away for someone else in a cube somewhere--of course maybe that's just because nobody really wants that, I don't know--and that I want what I do to make money directly for me. What I feel I lack is something original, interesting, and exciting in the way of an idea that I can take and use to raise funding. Of course like you're saying, there are plenty of things that you can do and make a lot of money at without having innovative ideas, you just need to have a desire, work ethic, and some level of knowledge about the business. But in that case, where does the money come from, isn't it true that you need to 'have money to make money'? You can't just go to a bank and say hey look, I have no qualifications but I really want to do this and think I could make money at it, that's not how it works.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sense a lot of fear in you. I sense a lot of frustration.


Don't be frustrated. Think of all the questions you have now that are unanswered as challenges. Find a way to go beyond and rise above those challenges.


You won't go anywhere in the entrepreneurial / business world by asking a question to yourself, not knowing how to answer it, and simply give up.

You must make a commitment to yourself to spend TIME as well as make use of your MIND to THINK and come up with creative ways to solve your problems.


[ QUOTE ]
it takes money to make money

[/ QUOTE ]

It is too easy to show you different ways you can make money without having any. In fact, there are thousands of ways. Most millionaires today are self-made.

But they sure as hell didn't become self made millionaires without running into adversity and overcoming it each and everytime. That statement you just made stumped me quite a lot for some time, but after countless of hours and hours and hours of research and implementation I found my own answer towards how I was going to make money without money.

You must do the same for yourself.

Start reading a lot of books and do a lot of research. Network your way and try and find successful investors / entrepreneurs / business owners and figure out how they did it. Educate your mind to become creative and seek knowledge in places and from people that have abundance both.

[Chaostracize]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a lot more to say, but it would take 2-3 pages to say it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would really appreciate hearing anything you have to say.

[ArturiusX]

You know whats funny; all this talk of the American dream, all of this talk about having a big house and taking cruises every 3 months.

Yet out of the successfulish guys I talk too, everyones to afraid to be rich. They settle for that 150k a year job. These are guys that worked their asses off to get there, with huge dreams, but once they hit this magical mark, they just give up.

Investing is similar, they just don't see the point of trying to get wealthy. They see only downsides; losing what they already own, failing and feeling bad, having to worry about the investment.

People just don't want to be as rich as they can be. I don't understand it, but I'm a natural poker player/day trader. All I think about is scalping as much bucks as I can. Money is points to me, and no amount could satisfy me. But I guess I haven't made it to that 'comfort' mark yet. That will be the true teller of how much drive I have.

Also, everyone who wants to be rich and is willing to put in the work almost always becomes as rich as they ever want to be (within reason). I never really understood this until recently.

[Tien]

I will give you the short version. I can't spend more time.

I think the most important thing you can do to feed your mental energy with healthy nutrition is to try as hard as possible to find people that add "value" to your life. People that help you achieve what you want to achieve because you are helping them achieve what they want to achieve in return. You must also dig deep within yourself and ask if you are adding "value" to other people's life. Are you helping them achieve what they want to achieve? Are they helping YOU achieve what you want to achieve?

If they are sapping your mental energy, if they are wasting your time, if they are slowing you down, if they are in any way decreasing value from your life, you must cut the line.

That said. Most people will come to realize that many of the people they spend most of their time with don't add any long lasting value in their lives whatsoever. Some friends don't help you push your life forward, in fact, most of them try to pull you back. I have lost contact with many friends of mine because after a while, I realized talking with them only sapped my mental energy. They were conditioned to find "flaws" in my new business ideas, my new ways of implementing a new business concept or system.

I do not regret losing many of these friends or associates because I have found others that are constantly pushing my life forward.


If you were a 1000 NL player, how much can you learn by hanging around 100 NL players?

How much can you learn by hanging around 10 000 NL players?

Why aren't you trying to add those people to your network so that they can help you achieve your goals and push you forward?

Don't be agitated about seeing so many people in your life that subtract value and waste your time. It is a numbers game, some people will, some people won't, so what? Whack the people that waste your time and mental energy, and actively seek the people that will push you to limits you have never gone before.

[Golden_Rhino]

[ QUOTE ]
I will give you the short version. I can't spend more time.

I think the most important thing you can do to feed your mental energy with healthy nutrition is to try as hard as possible to find people that add "value" to your life. People that help you achieve what you want to achieve because you are helping them achieve what they want to achieve in return. You must also dig deep within yourself and ask if you are adding "value" to other people's life. Are you helping them achieve what they want to achieve? Are they helping YOU achieve what you want to achieve?

If they are sapping your mental energy, if they are wasting your time, if they are slowing you down, if they are in any way decreasing value from your life, you must cut the line.

That said. Most people will come to realize that many of the people they spend most of their time with don't add any long lasting value in their lives whatsoever. Some friends don't help you push your life forward, in fact, most of them try to pull you back. I have lost contact with many friends of mine because after a while, I realized talking with them only sapped my mental energy. They were conditioned to find "flaws" in my new business ideas, my new ways of implementing a new business concept or system.

I do not regret losing many of these friends or associates because I have found others that are constantly pushing my life forward.


If you were a 1000 NL player, how much can you learn by hanging around 100 NL players?

How much can you learn by hanging around 10 000 NL players?

Why aren't you trying to add those people to your network so that they can help you achieve your goals and push you forward?

Don't be agitated about seeing so many people in your life that subtract value and waste your time. It is a numbers game, some people will, some people won't, so what? Whack the people that waste your time and mental energy, and actively seek the people that will push you to limits you have never gone before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Coles notes: Soar with the eagles, don't muck around with the turkeys.

Really good advice pal. It took me 30 years to figure that out.

[adsman]

Nice thread,

A few things have been mentioned, fear of failure being one. I think that this is blown all out of proportion. Most people don't have a fear of failure, they have a fear of success. Think of all those sayings that I'm sure that a lot of you have heard from childhood;

"Money doesn't grow on trees"

"People who have a lot of money must have done something bad to get there."

"What, do you think I'm made of money?"

"You have to work hard to get money."

I could go on. Most of us are conditioned to think this way and we can't break out of it. So when somebody like the OP comes along with a good investment idea, we just can't make that step because it conflicts with everything that we believed when we were growing up. This is what is known as having a "rich mindset". Children of the rich don't hear this nonsense and thus almost never have a problem in generating wealth.

I'm going through this stuff first hand now. For the last year I've been working on opening my own business this summer. In the last few months I've had setback after setback. The doubt is there. What if this doesn't work? It would be so easy to just slip back into my old way of thinking and go back to scraping enough money together each year to support my lifestyle.

You have to put your head down and get through the setbacks. Making change is never easy, we fight against it the whole way, especially with a subject as convoluted and touchy as wealth. The other poster is spot on. Surround yourself with people with the mindset that you want to emulate. I've lost a few friends this way but in the long run I don't regret it.