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  #11  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:23 PM
Riku Riku is offline
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Default Re: 88

Boz, I think the converter screwed up or somehting, it was 7 handed. Basically im mp1. The table was certainly on the tighter side so i went for it.
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:59 PM
tyler_cracker tyler_cracker is offline
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Default Re: 88

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise > Fold >>>> Call

[/ QUOTE ]
If the pot was smaller (not raised preflop) then we have a stronger argument for:

Fold > Raise >>>> Call

[/ QUOTE ]

If the SB wasn't still in the hand I think we'd have a stronger argument for

Call >>>>> Raise >>>> Fold

[/ QUOTE ]

if instead of poker we're talking about a choice between getting your laundry out of the dryer, speaking with your deaf grandma on the telephone, or erecting a barn with your amish neighbors:

fold > call > raise
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2007, 03:41 PM
bozlax bozlax is offline
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Default Re: 88

[ QUOTE ]
erecting a barn with your amish neighbors

[/ QUOTE ]

"'Tis a fine barn, English, but certainly 'tis no pool"

"D'oheth!"

Riku, might wanna double-check your coversions before submitting, avoids confusions like this since I can't really tell whether the coverter screwed up preflop action or just counting the players. 7/8-handed is the bubble; 6-max it's a raise; 9/10-handed it's a limp.

nh
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2007, 03:42 PM
BadBigBabar BadBigBabar is offline
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Default Re: 88

boz, a raise is fine even at fr
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2007, 03:55 PM
bozlax bozlax is offline
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Default Re: 88

[ QUOTE ]
boz, a raise is fine even at fr

[/ QUOTE ]

babar, no, it's not
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  #16  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:00 PM
BadBigBabar BadBigBabar is offline
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Default Re: 88

okay, let me clarify: i raised it utg at fr for the last year and a half or so of online fr grinding (a good part of which was 1/2) and it was +ev for me. i agree it's marginal if you don't play well postflop; same as raising kqo or kjs or ato or ats utg. in that case just folding it is fine.
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  #17  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:13 PM
tyler_cracker tyler_cracker is offline
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Default Re: 88

a data point which i'm sure will be tremendously helpful: i limp/raise 88 utg about 50/50 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. adjusting to table conditions ftw.
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  #18  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:17 PM
BadBigBabar BadBigBabar is offline
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Default Re: 88

tyler, i don't disagree that it's read-based, it just strikes me as odd sometimes that people who don't really play in these games that often or at all have these super strongly held convictions about the textures of those games. i haven't been playing in many games online where a limp utg can be gotten away with, i guess. so i was just trying to point out that i had experience in the game op was making reference to. i think raise > fold > call imo.
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  #19  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:18 PM
bozlax bozlax is offline
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Default Re: 88

[ QUOTE ]
okay, let me clarify: i raised it utg at fr for the last year and a half or so of online fr grinding (a good part of which was 1/2) and it was +ev for me. i agree it's marginal if you don't play well postflop; same as raising kqo or kjs or ato or ats utg. in that case just folding it is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said anything about folding?

While I agree that 1/2 is generally tighter than other micro limits, making playing mid-pairs for set value not necessarily the best play, I think you need to actually have the table-read that a UTG raise will likely take you to the flop HU (or at worst 3-handed) before you make that raise. Against unknowns, I'm more likely to limp.

But, we've been through this enough. 77-99 are hard to play in EP. As you point out, the level of your postflop play is what should actually dictate your line.

Edit: Babar, I've played a ton of fr 1/2, never at FT, but at Intertops, Stars, PP, yada yada, and I don't understand what you mean by not being able to "get away" with a UTG limp in that game.
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  #20  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:20 PM
BadBigBabar BadBigBabar is offline
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Default Re: 88

boz, yea definitely, it's one of those marginal spots where the intensity of the debate often outweighs the really marginal difference that the plays actually make. but, we've been seeing that for a long time in micros [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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