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  #11  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:17 PM
Howard Treesong Howard Treesong is offline
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Default Re: Ask Howard Treesong About Law or Lawyering

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Let me also observe that I thought the vigilante situation was not clear cut. I do not think we should live in a society that permits theft or robbery without significant risk to the perp

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Imprisonment isn't a significant risk?

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Hard to say. I think there are plenty of places in this country where simple theft isn't prosecuted all that often, or, as in my case, where the nearest police station to my house growing up was twenty minutes away, easy. I think the argument is here that private deterrence really does have an impact on this type of crime.

I don't have a good feel for how valid that arugment is, though.
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  #12  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:20 PM
Howard Treesong Howard Treesong is offline
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Default Re: Ask Howard Treesong About Law or Lawyering

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Howard,

Is Barry Bonds a criminal now? was he before he was indicted?

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Absolutely not. I think that the label "criminal" requires either a guilty plea or a conviction. I think he is soon to be a criminal because practically everyone on the planet is sure he is guilty as sin, but until that's formal, he's simply the "defendant" or the "accused." According to Bonds's lawyer, Barry is probably a "victim," although I rather obviously disagree with that.
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  #13  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:24 PM
Howard Treesong Howard Treesong is offline
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Default Re: Ask Howard Treesong About Law or Lawyering

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What made you want to become a lawywer? Being accepted into law school usually indicates you are a very capable person and would imply you have a lot of options. Why did you choose law over the other options you had?

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I went to MIT as an undergrad and struggled to do well at engineering stuff. Political science and humanities were much easier for me, so I opted out of engineering, got a poli sci degree, and went to law school. Part of that was familiarity: Father Treesong taught law at UCLA for almost forty years. Mother Treesong was a secretary for a Supreme Court Justice and Stepmother Treesong was a lawyer, law professor, and official in government. My brother is also a lawyer; I think there was some benefit being familiar with the general notion of what lawyers did and how.
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  #14  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:35 PM
Howard Treesong Howard Treesong is offline
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Default Re: Ask Howard Treesong About Law or Lawyering

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Howard-

You found my last news link interesting, so here's another.

Link

This happened close to me. For those that don't want to read the story, some sick f**ks skinned a dog alive.

Here's the question I'm putting out...

I believe crimes of this nature clearly indicate that the person responsible has a predisposition to much more serious crimes later in life. I know, it's just a dog, but should we treat crimes like this more seriously for the benefit of preventing more serious, future crimes?

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Without doing the research, my recollection is that it's well-established that some significant percentage of mass-murderers and other really evil folks start off with animal cruelty. Logically, though, that doesn't mean that everyone who is cruel to animals turns out to be Ted Bundy. For all we know, only a tiny percentage of animal abusers graduate to more serious crimes. From a due process perspective, I don't think the Constitution permits increased punishment for crimes that a person has not yet committed, so I think the strict answer to your question is no.

I think the idea behind three-strikes laws is to treat recidivism, but the criticism of those those laws is that they sweep in a bunch of people with relatively minor crimes and impose very harsh mandatory sentences.

I have a libertarian nut-job view of animal rights, so I'll stay away from my personal view of this issue unless someone is particularly intersted in it. It's likely to start a threadjack if I articulate it.
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  #15  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:42 PM
Howard Treesong Howard Treesong is offline
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Default Re: Ask Howard Treesong About Law or Lawyering

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what kind of pro bono work do you do, if any? what area of law do you find the most interesting?

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In my current role, none -- although I was highly tempted to go roust up a class to sue the Flying Imams on an intentional-infliction of emotional distress case. In the past, I've represented several indigent criminal defendants.

Oddly enough, I'm a process geek and generally avoided a subject-matter specialty. Of all the areas I dabbled in, I liked litigating in bankruptcy courts the best. That's because trials there have no juries and are usually on an accelerated time frame, avoiding the stupid discovery fights that burden down most civil litigation. Plus, a ton of my opponents were bankruptcy lawyers rather than litigators who didn't know enough about the rules of evidence or other trial issues, and at times, litigating against these guys felt like spearing fish in barrel. One transcript I'll remember for a long time:

Witness: Well, the banker told me . . .

Me (interrupting): Objection. Hearsay.

Court: Well?

Enemy lawyer: We really need this testimony, your honor.

Me: shrugs shoulders.

Court: Sustained.
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  #16  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:43 PM
garcia1000 garcia1000 is offline
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Default Re: Ask Howard Treesong About Law or Lawyering

Two questions for you, sir!

1) What do you think Americans generally feel of the plea bargaining system in America? I am interested in your opinion of this piece, which may or may not be biased:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2699c7c4-9...0779fd2ac.html

e.g. "Plea-bargaining is effective because of four salient features of American justice: the exceptional severity of punishment; the justified terror of what might happen in prison; the uncertain outcome of fighting cases before juries; and the possibility of obtaining a far lighter sentence by agreeing to pleas of guilty."

And so on. Is this the general consensus or just some wacky Brits?


2) Do you like U2?
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  #17  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:47 PM
Howard Treesong Howard Treesong is offline
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Default Re: Ask Howard Treesong About Law or Lawyering

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To ask a less hijacky question than my first, what level of knowledge about the law should a random person have? If it's hard to give a broad answer here, what criteria cause you to adjust your answer?

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I think a general survey undergrad course is a good idea. I think you should know what a tort is. I think a general education requires a general working knowledge of the Constitution. And I think it behooves everyone to know at least a little bit about criminal procedure.

After working on a federal court of appeals for a year, I am very very careful to have my hands on the dashboard and radio off by the time a policeman that has pulled me over gets to my car. And before I move my hands, I tell him exactly what I'm doing ("Officer, I'm reaching over to the glove box to get my insurance card.")
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  #18  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:48 PM
Howard Treesong Howard Treesong is offline
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I don't have a question as yet, but I wanted to say that I am a big fan Howard, and I will eagerly follow this thread.

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Thanks, Gobbo -- although I'm dead-set solid that Oswald was the lone shooter. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #19  
Old 11-30-2007, 12:04 AM
Howard Treesong Howard Treesong is offline
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Default Re: Ask Howard Treesong About Law or Lawyering

[ QUOTE ]
Two questions for you, sir!

1) What do you think Americans generally feel of the plea bargaining system in America? I am interested in your opinion of this piece, which may or may not be biased:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2699c7c4-9...0779fd2ac.html

e.g. "Plea-bargaining is effective because of four salient features of American justice: the exceptional severity of punishment; the justified terror of what might happen in prison; the uncertain outcome of fighting cases before juries; and the possibility of obtaining a far lighter sentence by agreeing to pleas of guilty."

And so on. Is this the general consensus or just some wacky Brits?

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This is a highly contentious issue over here. The current justice department is very aggressive with respect to white-collar criminal prosecutions, and in my view has really pushed the envelope. For example, prosecutors often insist that companies waive the attorney-client privilege and refuse to pay legal fees for executives who have been individually charged. Both rules are horrible, and reflect another facet of the problem your link articulates.

Plea decisions are very, very difficult. And prosecutors are known to add charges just to increase a defendant's risk. I think there's a fair argument to be made that plea demands can be coercive. Speaking rather more personally, I'd likely be willing to trust the jury system if I were unfairly charged -- although I must say that the notion of trying a complex financial accounting case is daunting indeed. That's so not just because it is expensive as all hell to get one to trial, but also because no juror will ever understand complex accounting in a trial setting. Most of the securities laws are written in an ambiguous way that makes them very very difficult to understand, so there's often a huge struggle to define themes intelligently, yet simply enough that a jury will get what's going on.

As for you Brits, I have a case going to trial in London next year, and may be there for some time. I will say that the level of advocacy among the barristers I've seen is very, very high. Some of these guys are really, really impressive.

Part of that comes from a procedural difference in the US system. In civil trials, we get to take testimony from witnesses during discovery, and can test out cross-examination. You UK guys can't, and so are much more practiced at taking what I'd call a "cold" cross, where you see your witness for the very first time in the courtroom.

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2) Do you like U2?

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Yep. One of my life's great regrets is when some girl in college offered me an extra ticket to a U2 concert. She was kinda hot, but I was sorta committed elsewhere, so I declined -- then soon after ended things with my then GF. Dumb, Howard, dumb.
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  #20  
Old 11-30-2007, 12:11 AM
mmbt0ne mmbt0ne is offline
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Default Re: Ask Howard Treesong About Law or Lawyering

HT,

1) Do you legitimately enjoy what you do? Everyone I know who is, was or is studying to be a lawyer seems to hate it and that really turned me off from any consideration of a career in law.

2) What is a crook? A group of friends get into this argument a lot after a little drinking. Side A says it's a criminal. Side B says it's only a thief, arguing that a murderer is clearly not a crook. Side A will concede that but argues that it should encompass more than just robbing someone. What is you legal opinion?
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