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  #1  
Old 11-18-2007, 05:18 PM
forbin89 forbin89 is offline
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Default 1/2NL at Foxwoods - Correct play on Flop?

I played some 1/2NL last night at foxwoods, most of the game was really fishy but there was one really tricky player at my table that i was trying to stay away from if possible. He had a stack of about 800 (at a 300max table), and only showed down good hands, was playing very TAG. I had a stack of about 450 at this time.

So the hand went as follows.
Tricky Villain in Cutoff
Fishy loose passive guy on button with about 100
Im in Big Blind

Preflop
Villain limps, button limps, i raise to 15 with 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Both cutoff and button call

Flop 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I bet $30, villain raises to $80, button folds...
correct play?

To me there is an obvious correct play (which of course i didnt make) but just wanted to make sure..
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  #2  
Old 11-18-2007, 05:41 PM
ActionStan ActionStan is offline
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Default Re: 1/2NL at Foxwoods - Correct play on Flop?

I really don't like leading on a board like this. So easy to get taken off your hand. I would fold given where you are. With that stack size you are so vulnerable. You can't play for stacks with that hand.

I think a better line might be to c/c the flop and bet/fold the turn. Others probably have a better opinion on this than me.
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2007, 06:45 PM
jjshabado jjshabado is offline
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Default Re: 1/2NL at Foxwoods - Correct play on Flop?

I like the bet on the flop.

I think its a pretty clear fold.
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  #4  
Old 11-18-2007, 07:38 PM
ActionStan ActionStan is offline
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Default Re: 1/2NL at Foxwoods - Correct play on Flop?

If the villain is straightforward, I think betting is good. I have a hard time leading here if the villain is tricky or aggressive at all. It's such a good bluffing board. I routinely raise this board from the button. The hero's range is really weighted towards big cards that missed and you can threaten to play for stacks with top pair and the smaller overpair hands. It's so hard to continue with a hand like TT in this spot once raised.

In this hand we have a tricky villain with position who shows up with hands when the pot gets big. Ugh. This isn't the kind of hand we want to build a pot with, I think.
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  #5  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:01 PM
onoble onoble is offline
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Default Re: 1/2NL at Foxwoods - Correct play on Flop?

Def bet flop...

I think I'd atleast call this. I might raise if he thought I would fold easy to resistance.

You say he's TAG so he could be raising with a f draw, str8 draw, even A9. Your losing to 2 pair or a set.
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  #6  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:06 PM
jjshabado jjshabado is offline
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Default Re: 1/2NL at Foxwoods - Correct play on Flop?

[ QUOTE ]
If the villain is straightforward, I think betting is good. I have a hard time leading here if the villain is tricky or aggressive at all. It's such a good bluffing board. I routinely raise this board from the button. The hero's range is really weighted towards big cards that missed and you can threaten to play for stacks with top pair and the smaller overpair hands. It's so hard to continue with a hand like TT in this spot once raised.

In this hand we have a tricky villain with position who shows up with hands when the pot gets big. Ugh. This isn't the kind of hand we want to build a pot with, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah its a [censored] spot, but I don't think there's any good way around the fact that villain has position on us. Checking the flop just looks weak to me, inducing villain to bet. I'm not a big fan of check/calling then betting out the turn because I think you're going to lose more to villain's big hands then you gain from his bluffs. You're putting in two good size bets this way while bet/folding the flop you're just putting in one. If villain only occasionally makes a move here I like the bet/fold on the flop better.

The other problem with check/calling the flop is that you aren't protecting your hand at all, and there's lots of turn cards that can come that will probably make leading the turn a bad idea.
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  #7  
Old 11-18-2007, 08:46 PM
Albert Moulton Albert Moulton is offline
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Default Re: 1/2NL at Foxwoods - Correct play on Flop?

I'd fold. Given the description of villain, your bad position, and the fact that you are deep stacked, I think that putting more money in on the flop only to get yourself in deeper on the turn and river are bad plays. You are really only ahead of top-pair hands and 1-pairs lower than 9s that might be testing your continuation bet. But sets, 97s, and big combo draws seem more likely.

If you suspect he's stealing light, then you can reraise on the flop and fold if he pushes. Or, call the raise and either c/f a spade turn or b/f a non-spade turn. But both get pretty pricey pretty fast. So, given your read, and since this does not appear to be a regular thing for him to attack your continuation bets, I think you can fold this time. Find a better spot to make your stand vs the TAG at the table who has position on you and has your stack covered.
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2007, 09:22 PM
hornpout hornpout is offline
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Default Re: 1/2NL at Foxwoods - Correct play on Flop?

i like the fold too. there is a reason that you have avoided villain and a tag will only put more pressure on the turn regardless of a scare card hitting or not. then what do you do? you only have $45 in but $400 more to pick a better spot with.
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2007, 11:37 PM
EN09 EN09 is offline
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Default Re: 1/2NL at Foxwoods - Correct play on Flop?

what hands might a tricky TAG villain limp first in from the cutoff? i'm thinking he'd raise a 79s as a steal attempt. 99/77/33 would also come in for a raise. 93o and 73o i just don't see villain playing.

you're oop against a player who has raised you, and you've already warned yourself about watching out for him. this should be an easy fold for you.

EN
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  #10  
Old 11-19-2007, 06:01 AM
elliot elliot is offline
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Default Re: 1/2NL at Foxwoods - Correct play on Flop?

FOLD FOLD FOLD FOLD FOLD FOLD

and be happy it only cost you 45 to reach that conclusion. if he is bluffing here, good for him, it was a tiny pot.
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