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  #11  
Old 08-24-2007, 03:16 PM
zasterguava zasterguava is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts/clarifications

[ QUOTE ]
Whether or not socialism can be logically defended doesn't interest me (cause it's so obvious to me that it can't be).


[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading here. How ignorant you are for posting this. You may disagree with socialism, but, thinking that no "logicall defence" of it can be made is preposterous. You really have missed out on some of the greatest writing of all time regarding politics and philosophy if you have never heard a logical argument supporting socialism. You don't have to agree with it- but your cutting your own throat by not accepting there are super-intelligent, convincing people out there who support it and are able to provide a 'logical defense of it'.

The idea of Nazism (or ironically National Socialism) repulses me. But it would be very idiotic of me to make the claim that no "logical defense" could be made and would consequently be false as there have been plenty.
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  #12  
Old 08-24-2007, 03:23 PM
ALawPoker ALawPoker is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts/clarifications

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whether or not socialism can be logically defended doesn't interest me (cause it's so obvious to me that it can't be).


[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You made it that far? That's pretty good considering this post is of no consequence to someone who is not an ACer or something close to it.

If there is a logical justification, I don't see it. So what I said is it doesn't interest me to talk about it. Hence why I had been dwelling on anti-AC minutia.
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  #13  
Old 08-24-2007, 03:28 PM
zasterguava zasterguava is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts/clarifications

[ QUOTE ]
What we want is for The State Delusion to fly away as if it never existed.

[/ QUOTE ]

...yes, and replace the evils of state capitalism with something that has the inevitable implication of creating a more oppressive, exploitative, evil system encouraging greed, slavery and the systematic control and manipulation of the masses by an unobligated disproportionately wealthy minority.

Surely if we are to look for alternative ways to prosper and create a free society in the absense of the state we should avoid opening ourselves up to even greater evils of a same vein to those perpetrated by any state.
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  #14  
Old 08-24-2007, 03:42 PM
zasterguava zasterguava is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts/clarifications

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whether or not socialism can be logically defended doesn't interest me (cause it's so obvious to me that it can't be).


[/ QUOTE ]

I stopped reading here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You made it that far? That's pretty good considering this post is of no consequence to someone who is not an ACer or something close to it.

If there is a logical justification, I don't see it. So what I said is it doesn't interest me to talk about it. Hence why I had been dwelling on anti-AC minutia.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said a "logical defense". You did not say in the post that you hadn't heard a logical justification. This changes things completely.

I certainly havn't read anything that gave a legitmate justification of exerminating me and my family to create a utopian/ Aryan Fatherland. Nor do I think anyone could ever do so. I do, however, acknowledge that over the past 200 years there has been some very well written 'logical defenses' of such ideology that would result in such an injustice.

Perhaps you should edit your post with the amendment you have made in the consequent post (justification instead of defence) as to save you from the embarrassing stigma of the implication of your wording suggesting that you have never read any of the greatest political/philosophers of all time that have written some of the most wonderfully convincing logical defenses of socialism. I for one am highly appreciative of their efforts which have allowed me to critique and develop my ideas on society that I believe grant even more meaningful "logical defenses" than that of state socialism.
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  #15  
Old 08-24-2007, 03:42 PM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts/clarifications

[ QUOTE ]
The ways you do this (not voting, not paying taxes, exposing the corruption, etc.), while objectively good, are things people will interpret as deviant and bad. And I don't want to be interpreted like that. The ideal is not as important to me as practical perception.

[/ QUOTE ]


Bingo! You've hit it right on the nail.




That is exactly what it is. What you are saying here holds true for almost everyone.

The difference however is that in your case, you have taken it from a more subconscious level of processing to a more conscious level of understanding. The pressure of this kind off social approval is ENORMOUS, and breaking loose from it is an incredible struggle.


The choice is clear: either you conform your opinion to the judgment of others, or you develop your opinions on your own, by your own evaluation and your own personal strength.

It's the choice between being alive, being actually alive and having a personality, a self. Or it is disappearing in the masses of collectivism and socialism, social conformism, of dying, of literally dying to your true nature.

And yes, the choice has massive affects on your personal relationships. And that is exactly what you are affraid of. And there lies the beauty of it all. Once you get rid of comformist relationships you will realize how beautiful your life will finally become, when you can FINALLY be yourself, WITHOUT having to fear ridicule from people who CANNOT be themselves, because THEY TOO are affraid of being true to their nature and their natural freedoms.


My advice would be to start listening to some podcasts on deleted and where he talks about liberty applied to personal relationships. You will be amazed at what you'll hear.
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  #16  
Old 08-24-2007, 03:47 PM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts/clarifications

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What we want is for The State Delusion to fly away as if it never existed.

[/ QUOTE ]

...yes, and replace the evils of state capitalism with something that has the inevitable implication of creating a more oppressive, exploitative, evil system encouraging greed, slavery and the systematic control and manipulation of the masses by an unobligated disproportionately wealthy minority.

Surely if we are to look for alternative ways to prosper and create a free society in the absense of the state we should avoid opening ourselves up to even greater evils of a same vein to those perpetrated by any state.

[/ QUOTE ]


Hahaha. lol. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


People interacting voluntarily and peaceful after they have given up moral support of criminal gangs such as the state.

That sounds like an 'oppressive, exploitative, evil system encouraging greed, slavery and the systematic control and manipulation of the masses by an unobligated disproportionately wealthy minority'.

What was your suggestion again? Worldwide communism?
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  #17  
Old 08-24-2007, 03:48 PM
ALawPoker ALawPoker is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts/clarifications

[ QUOTE ]
[your cutting your own throat by not accepting there are super-intelligent, convincing people out there who support it and are able to provide a 'logical defense of it'

[/ QUOTE ]

There are super smart people who make their livings as cable news anchors. When there exist certain misconceptions there exists demand to feed those misconceptions. The smartest bears will find a way to do that in a satisfying way (and the laws of social darwinism are such that often the best way to do this is to actually believe it yourself... so the people who have some deeply seated misconception but also a great ability to defend it will be the ones that are selected).
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  #18  
Old 08-24-2007, 03:55 PM
ALawPoker ALawPoker is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts/clarifications

Zast, you may not have read the other thread, but I was explaining why I might seem so critical of AC. I see no logical merit to socialism. Sorry, I don't. Do you want me to lie and say I do?

My point was merely that I was dwelling on the differences I have with AC because it interests me, and not because I am actively against it.
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  #19  
Old 08-24-2007, 04:04 PM
zasterguava zasterguava is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts/clarifications

[ QUOTE ]
What was your suggestion again? Worldwide communism?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, if we must engage in sophisticated debate using sarcasm then i'll try: yes, searching for an alternative way to create a free society in the absense of the state is definetly going to lead to the assumption that 'worldwide communism' is the way forward?!!!?!?!???! Seriously Nielso, you resort to sarcasm and McCarthyism in one thread.
[ QUOTE ]

I see no logical merit to socialism. Sorry, I don't. Do you want me to lie and say I do?


[/ QUOTE ]
No, but I think it is ignorant (and incorrect) to dismiss all pollitcal phillosophy that defends socialsim as failing to be "logical" in its defense. Certainly your amendmet that you don't think anything could ever 'justify' socialism to you is perectly understandable and your personal opinion.
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  #20  
Old 08-24-2007, 04:22 PM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
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Default Re: Some thoughts/clarifications

[ QUOTE ]
My advice would be to start listening to some podcasts on deleted and where he talks about liberty applied to personal relationships. You will be amazed at what you'll hear.

[/ QUOTE ]


The link was www.freedomainradio.com before it got removed and I got mistakingly banned for blog spamming (fdr is not a blog nor am I affiliated with it). The ban has been reversed, so I assume I can post the url again.
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