2 questions

UptownExpress · #1 07-18-2007, 08:46 PM

Ok I know these look stupid but I am interested in some response because these situations come up all the time and I want to know more about how to handle them.

In hand 1, could use please evaluate preflop and flop.

In hand 2, do people call here (squeeze)? what frequency?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($32.65)
UTG ($11.20)
Hero ($28.60)
CO ($26.55)
Button ($26.20)
SB ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $1, 3 folds, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.25

i know this (hand underneath) is really standard but um... with no reads?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($24.40)
SB ($60.15)
BB ($42.45)
UTG ($19.30)
MP ($25.65)
CO ($27.50)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, MP raises to $1.2, [i], 1 fold, hero?

70yssej · #2 07-18-2007, 08:49 PM

Hand 1 fold preflop. As played bet $1.50 on the flop.
Hand 2 call. you have a good implied odds hand and as long as you're decent postflop you will be +ev after the flop given there is an UTG limper and he raised in MP which implies he actually has a hand.

TiltedFox · #3 07-18-2007, 09:52 PM

Hand 1: Fold preflop, as played he'll probably reraise you.
Hand 2: Fold, there are three people left to act and QJs is pretty questionable to a raise unless you hit the flop hard.

Big Poppa Smurf · #4 07-18-2007, 09:56 PM

1)fold, no need to get fancy
2)fold, you can't count on the limper to call and you need more people in the pot to make it profitable (at least I do)

UptownExpress · #5 07-18-2007, 10:02 PM

it seems reasonable to play hand 1 this way preflop at low frequency for deception/metagame right?

Capone · #6 07-18-2007, 10:16 PM

Hand 1: Clear fold pre-flop. Cbet 3/4 pot. I try not to always c-bet though when I miss the flop like that.

Hand 2: Easy fold. This hand prefers multi-way action like a small sc. If you play it for high card value for a raise you will get yourself into so many TPWK marginal situations.

UptownExpress · #7 07-18-2007, 10:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Clear fold pre-flop. And dont c-bet you completely miseed the flop.

Hand 2: Easy fold. This hand prefers multi-way action like a small sc. If you play it for high card value for a raise you will get yourself into so many TPWK marginal situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm can i have a second opinion on this post. this seems like terrible advice. I fold preflop 90+% of the time with 53s, but that is not really the point, because it's correct as slkansky says to play deceptively sometimes. the real question is the size of my flop c-bet vs. bb.

filsteal · #8 07-18-2007, 10:39 PM

Hand 1: I'd fold this preflop from MP. I might raise it from the CO or BTN, though. As played, definitely c-bet the flop.

Hand 2: If you call here, it's purely for straight/flush value, not high card value. So if you feel comfortable calling here with 75s, then you can feel comfortable calling with QJs. And if not, then don't.

70yssej · #9 07-18-2007, 10:40 PM

play deceptively against people who will actually take notice of your cards. preflop is just bad. postflop is fine although i prefer to make it an extra quarter.

filsteal · #10 07-18-2007, 10:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: Clear fold pre-flop. And dont c-bet you completely miseed the flop.

Hand 2: Easy fold. This hand prefers multi-way action like a small sc. If you play it for high card value for a raise you will get yourself into so many TPWK marginal situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm can i have a second opinion on this post. this seems like terrible advice. I fold preflop 90+% of the time with 53s, but that is not really the point, because it's correct as slkansky says to play deceptively sometimes. the real question is the size of my flop c-bet vs. bb.

[/ QUOTE ]

At SSNL, deception isn't as important as the simple fact that too many opponents coldcall preflop raises with marginal hands and give up when they miss the flop. Making a PFR and then c-betting when checked to is an immensely profitable sequence for you at SSNL, and you want to let it happen as often as you can without causing your opponents to play differently against you.

That said, I still fold this from MP, usually.