[3/6] KQs flops top two on monotone board

Xhad · #1 12-09-2006, 01:09 AM

No significant reads.

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (14.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB

BigBadBabar · #2 12-09-2006, 01:45 AM

weird, did he flop a flush? maybe a set of 4s? i think i would prefer to 3bet the flop and lead turn if he calls, and if he caps the flop maybe call down from there.

i don't like the turn donk much (denying the free card for the flush draw i guess -- did you put him on ace club and something else?) for some reason. also on the river i would probably overcall. i think we have mp2 beat. i can't think of a ton that mp1 plays that way that we beat (ace club + a pair, maybe king or queen) but it's possible.

NNNNOOOOONAN · #3 12-09-2006, 02:21 AM

why did u raise this out of the SB after this many limpers?

MacGuyV · #4 12-09-2006, 02:22 AM

I like it all save from the river which is terrible.

Niediam · #5 12-09-2006, 02:53 AM

Too much of a chance that villian has a hand like A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q for me to fold the river. I like the rest of the streets.

Niediam · #6 12-09-2006, 02:55 AM

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why did u raise this out of the SB after this many limpers?

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Because hero has a big edge in equity. He is putting in 20% of the money while he will probably win the hand 30% or so of the time.

NNNNOOOOONAN · #7 12-09-2006, 03:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why did u raise this out of the SB after this many limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because hero has a big edge in equity. He is putting in 20% of the money while he will probably win the hand 30% or so of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

does acting first negate any of this equity?

Niediam · #8 12-09-2006, 03:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why did u raise this out of the SB after this many limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because hero has a big edge in equity. He is putting in 20% of the money while he will probably win the hand 30% or so of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

does acting first negate any of this equity?

[/ QUOTE ]

You will on average probably win a less money being OOP but it doesn't change the fact that your hand is much better than probably all your opponents hands.

NNNNOOOOONAN · #9 12-09-2006, 04:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why did u raise this out of the SB after this many limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because hero has a big edge in equity. He is putting in 20% of the money while he will probably win the hand 30% or so of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

does acting first negate any of this equity?

[/ QUOTE ]

You will on average probably win a less money being OOP but it doesn't change the fact that your hand is much better than probably all your opponents hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely understand and agree that LHE involves pushing many small edges and getting your chips in w/ good equity, but this situation is something i struggle with.

the reason i struggle w/ it is because it is a seven card game. while our hand is probably best right now, is committing that raise out of the small blind agains that many limpers at an obviously loose table really a winning play in the long run?

btw thanks for posting this hand, i think there's a lot more to it than you may have realized.

Niediam · #10 12-09-2006, 05:42 AM

Actually our hand is probably not the best now. Somebody almost for sure has an ace or a pocket pair. The reason we are raising isn't really because our hand is so good now but that we will win more than our fair share once all 7 cards are out. We are putting in 20% (17% if the BB stays in) of the total money preflop. By raising we are basically guarenteed to show a profit from the raise in the long if we end up winning the hand more than 20% of the time. I'm sure if somebody is bored they can come up with some PT stats or PokerStove calculations to show that is true but just from personal experience I'm quite sure that this is true. It's really no different from when you raise 99 or AK...

I know what you are trying to get at by pointing out that we are in the blind and there are definately some hands that one would often raise in LP but not in the blinds. Usually these are the big (but not really big) unsuited broadway hands such as KQo and AJo. But suited big cards are just too good not to raise.