fish donking the river

[Sibelius]

UTG is loose-passive. Not sure what he's river donk means.

Pf: hero is CO K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, hero raises, Button 3-bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, hero calls

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (13 SB)
check, check, hero bets, Button folds, SB folds, UTG calls

Turn: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7,5 BB)
UTG checks, hero bets, UTG calls

River: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9,5 BB)
UTG bets, hero calls

[rzk]

from a loose passive, i think it means a flush (discounted because he didn't c/r), K4, 44, or some other king (also discounted). i'd discount a flush by 40-60% and other kings by about the same. so plug into pokerstove and if you have more than 50% equity, raise/fold.

[Oink]

In my experience this is either a flush or a busted draw. Sometimes it is a marginal hand donking the scarecard.

If its a flush raising sucks
If its a broken draw that donk/folds raising does nothing for you
If its a marginal hand that donk/calls raising is good.

This is one of the two first two too often for me to raise.

[l0gician]

What level are you playing? In my games (.50) this is a flush like 90%+ of the time vs a lp. I would fold pretty easily and not think anything of it.

[Oink]

folding here is bad.

I played those stakes as well and regardless of limits when fish donks here they can have a lot more than flushes.

Getting 10.5 he needs to have you beat about 92% for you to fold.

Seriously. You cant ever fold here unless you have a VERY VERY good read.

[l0gician]

Every time I call here they got flushes 0_0; He is some lp fish, do you want to see his Ax of c? Maybe he called cause the J hit him, but what is he betting at? J4?? I dunno usually they will just call if they have a medium strength hand, they aren't that tricky. But ya, I probably don't know what I'm talking about and I would listen to Oink.

[UtzChips]

[ QUOTE ]
Every time I call here they got flushes 0_0; He is some lp fish, do you want to see his Ax of c? Maybe he called cause the J hit him, but what is he betting at? J4?? I dunno usually they will just call if they have a medium strength hand, they aren't that tricky. But ya, I probably don't know what I'm talking about and I would listen to Oink.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then the 8 times out of a 100 when they don't have the flush, you must be folding. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[l0gician]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Every time I call here they got flushes 0_0; He is some lp fish, do you want to see his Ax of c? Maybe he called cause the J hit him, but what is he betting at? J4?? I dunno usually they will just call if they have a medium strength hand, they aren't that tricky. But ya, I probably don't know what I'm talking about and I would listen to Oink.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then the 8 times out of a 100 when they don't have the flush, you must be folding. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably am, unless I have a read. Now that I actually think one step further, in my head I was thinking HU the whole time and I didn't even count the bets. So, pretty big pot from the 3-bet and dead money. I'm converted.

[rzk]

i think he's much more likely to have K4 and 44 than a busted draw.

i'm less sure about hands like K8-KT. perhaps they should be discounted more than i originally thought (but very unlikely to less than 10%). if so, you don't need pokerstove to figure out that raising would be bad.

[Sibelius]

[ QUOTE ]
What level are you playing? In my games (.50) this is a flush like 90%+ of the time vs a lp. I would fold pretty easily and not think anything of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 2/4 in Ongame.
And this is not a flush 90% of the time in my games.. Actually this wasn't the only time today i saw loose-passive donking the river with TPTK after calling down flop and turn.