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#31
11-17-2007, 05:12 PM
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Re: NL50: AA. Me gets suspicious...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I honestly think that it would have been much easier for me to commit here if he would've played the hand like this cause I always expect the average/bad players to slowplay their sets. Maybe wrong thinking... [/ QUOTE ] definitely wrong thinking. Bad players slowplay hands, but when bad players are playing passively, it is overwhelmingly more likely that they have a weak hand than a strong one, EVEN IF THEY SLOWPLAY EVERY SINGLE BIG HAND. It's simply difficult to make big hands, and easy to make weak ones. Standard mathematics. [/ QUOTE ] This is important. Like, game changingly important for anyone who doesn't realize it (or forgets it sometimes, like me). 
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#32
11-17-2007, 06:18 PM
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Re: NL50: AA. Me gets suspicious...
Folding the turn?? Are you nuts>> seriously, if you thought you were behind, then you =just check call to showdown. I wouldnt be worried at all, and if you are behind, its not like you called an all in or push or anything.
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#33
11-18-2007, 12:19 AM
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Re: NL50: AA. Me gets suspicious...
No, I'm not nuts. When I think I'm behind here folding on the turn is the only thing that really makes sense. What would c/c achieve here? If I think I'm ahead than I'll def go with rentons point of view here, that means betting turn and betting river for value if not raised.
Seriously mce86, how can c/c here be a good or default line? And no, I did not call a push, but villain managed to get in more than 2/3 of effective stacks, so saying we did not call an AI is, in terms of pot size, only a small achievement. Edit: I'm a pretty drunk right now but I'm really happy how this discussion turned out! Sorry to mce86 in case I've been rude or something and thanks to everyone else for your participation so far!
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#35
11-18-2007, 01:32 AM
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Re: NL50: AA. Me gets suspicious...
Alex,
Um, you raised pre, bet flop, and checked turn. Don't you do this with the 800 combinations of missed overs too? With a small pair like 44? He obv fires at turn weakness on a low board. Ok, so you called and check the river. This is a nice spot for him to vbet /vbetbluff any hand he has, because unless you had Kx and rivered 2 pr, that was probably a brick for you and it's nearly impossible for you to call off 40% of a stack with a hand as weak as what YOU are representing.
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#37
11-18-2007, 03:22 AM
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Re: NL50: AA. Me gets suspicious...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This type of Villain bets as many hands on the turn as he calls with. [/ QUOTE ] You are probably aware of this, but us checking and him betting 7 dollars does NOT have the same ev for us as us betting 7 dollars and him calling. [/ QUOTE ] Renton, would you mind explaining this? I'm not quite sure what you mean. Great thread guys!
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#38
11-18-2007, 10:11 AM
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Re: NL50: AA. Me gets suspicious...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This type of Villain bets as many hands on the turn as he calls with. [/ QUOTE ] You are probably aware of this, but us checking and him betting 7 dollars does NOT have the same ev for us as us betting 7 dollars and him calling. [/ QUOTE ] Renton, would you mind explaining this? I'm not quite sure what you mean. [/ QUOTE ] Bump! Im not quite sure either.
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#39
11-18-2007, 11:28 AM
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Re: NL50: AA. Me gets suspicious...
because when you calculate ranges and the overall game into things, his bet has a entirely different ev attached to it than his call of our bet of the same size.
If we bet, he calls, he payed to see the river, and unless he's running some elaborate turn-float-river-bluff, he's essentially depending on showing down the best hand as his only way to win. If we check, and he bets, and we only call, he's essentially making a winning play against our range, because a) his bet has folding equity (i.e. he can win the pot in TWO ways now, by making the best hand or by making us fold) b) he gets a free card if he's drawing against us c) he gets to cheaply show down, since the dynamic in the hand has changed to a mode where you are going to continue to play passively and check the river to him, giving him the option to take a showdown.
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#40
11-18-2007, 12:24 PM
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Re: NL50: AA. Me gets suspicious...
Thanks Renton.
I misunderstood the original statement. I thought you specifically meant "Hero Bets"-"Villan Calls" was better than "Hero Checks"-"Villan Bets"-"Hero Calls" But of course you meant checking gives the villan a range of options of which he can pick the most +EV for him. Also... Would it be true to say - (D) If we bet out - We can reasonably assume that after we have bet out 3 times he will raise with hands that beat us (and only hands that beat us). Therefore if we bet and he raises we can get away "cheaper" when behind than if we went into "Check-Call" mode on both turn and river?
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