let's get the facts straight: poker makes money

[Small Fry]

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I don't know about the Vegas casinos, but in the two casinos I have experience with (Fallsview and Rama in Ontario), slots take up close to 80% of the floorspace. It's obvious to me that slots are the most profitable gambling "game" per square foot, as they require an absolute minimum of staff to maintain them.

But ...

I have never ever seen close to full capacity at the slots at these two casinos. There is literally no such thing as having to wait to play slots, unless the patron wants to play a specific machine among the thousands.

Thus, the higher profitability of slots is not a relevant issue, in that there is ample spare capacity and no money is being lost by the casino because people who want to play slots, can't (because the casinos have in essence created spare slot capacity by choice).

Contrast this to the small poker rooms these establishments have (17 at Fallview, 12 at Rama). About 5 to 8 hours out of every day there are lengthy waiting lists, representing income lost by the casino because people who want to play poker (and I agree with Al that the poker rooms are profitable) have to wait.


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And what, may I ask, do you think most of these players waiting to play poker are doing?

I don't think anyone would really argue that poker rooms don't make money. The queston the casinos deal with is, with a finite amount of space what is the most profitable way to allocate it to all the various methods of gambling that a person can participate in.

[Poshua]

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And what, may I ask, do you think most of these players waiting to play poker are doing?

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I've actually found it surprising how little casinos do to encourage waiting poker players to play the tables or the slots. Often, the layout is such that you cannot go to a pit and still see the waiting list. As a result, players end up sitting around in the poker lobby, not losing money to the casino shareholders.

There are a few exceptions. Borgata recently moved a craps table right outside the poker lobby. Additionally, the Venetian set up a small table games pit right outside the poker lobby, though it's only open at peak times.

[PokrLikeItsProse]

[ QUOTE ]

Contrast this to the small poker rooms these establishments have (17 at Fallview, 12 at Rama). About 5 to 8 hours out of every day there are lengthy waiting lists, representing income lost by the casino because people who want to play poker (and I agree with Al that the poker rooms are profitable) have to wait.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the problem is not the length of the waiting list, but the average length of a wait before people on the list get seated. I've seen rooms have 3 tables at a given limit and start a new table as soon as they get ten names on the list without evaluating how likely players are to leave the existing games so that thirty minutes later you have four tables whining that they each have two empty seats.

[bkkdude]

the problem here is too many of you are poker players.

casinos dont revolve around poker....lol. poker, keno, sports, just complimentary to the main attractions.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Good points. If these casinos have lengthy waiting lists for much of the day all the time, they should expand their poker rooms. Seems obvious to me.

The thing is, poker is here to stay. Poker players want to play poker, and they will play at your casino or someone else's. I don't know many that are willing to play blackjac or slots just because there are long lists. Most will just go somewhere else.


Much of the time small poker rooms will be empty, but there's often a reason other than "nobody wants to play poker." Usually small rooms are buried in the back, far from the main casino action, far from anyone stolling casually by; a crappy little room in a lousy location, staffed by underpaid mopes who don't give a darn anyway. These rooms have been given the perfect recipe for failure.

In contrast, a small room with a great location and enthusiastic, friendly staff can be very successful.

Essentially you will get out of something only what you put into it.

Al

[Don Olney]

Poker is here to stay, Al, for some rooms. And you are right a small room with the right staff can do well. Lets not forget how great the alaadin was when Mr. Nick was there. Games were small BUT the room was a blast. Lets not ever forget the " COOKIES ARE HERE AND YOU CAN NOT GET THEM AT THE BELLAGIO" speach every day at 4:00.

[JohnnyGroomsTD]

OP is way off on some stuuf. One factor thatwas eliminated is a market specific one. What about the casinos that have a limit on square footage? Like on the MS barges.

Also,
What about taxes, benefits for employees, and a laundry list of other things. I cannot go into detail, but poker is not the windfall that some may think.

[JohnnyGroomsTD]

What about casinos with time drop as their primary rake? The only reason to have shufflers in those games is to improve customer satisfaction.

[Don Olney]

At one time this was true, but now there is a push out here in Las Vegas to have no hand shuffle at all.
So, in a time game we sit waiting for the shuffle machine when a hand is raised and folded around. TIME WASTED --- SATISFACTION GONE.....

[carddown]

I believe that the value of a Poker room goes far beyond the cost generated per square foot. A Poker room is a real attraction, one that Poker players will go out of their way to choose. They'll plan trips and vacations around it, sometimes with an entourage of general gamblers along for the ride.

If I were a casino executive, I'd have to look at a cardroom as a different animal. It is an attraction, but it is also a cash generating part of the casino. It has to be judged by another set of standards than equal real estate packed with slot machines.