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| View Poll Results: Am I a racist? | |||
| Yes, definitely |
   
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47 | 31.97% |
| No, they deserve your sentiments |
  
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61 | 41.50% |
| Not sure |
  
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39 | 26.53% |
| Voters: 147. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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#1
08-09-2007, 12:18 AM
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Re: Strange Question for ACists and libertarians
If I'm around friends, I stand silently, then I usually whisper, "[censored] America," right at the very end of the anthem, just loudly enough for the one nearest me to hear it.
Edited to add: Can also be replaced with, "[censored] the troops," if there is some sort of formal recognition of American soldiers' presence at the event. <font color="white"> Edit in white: Tongue-in-cheek, of course. I wish harm on no individual. </font> 
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#2
08-09-2007, 12:24 AM
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Re: Strange Question for ACists and libertarians
[ QUOTE ]
I voted option 1. I love the national anthem. I think it's very moving. At the time it was penned the banner represented the fight against oppressive government, and was not a symbol of it. That's how I interpret it. I will NOT, however, pledge allegiance to a [censored] piece of cloth. I can't even understand how a patriotic statist can buy into that. WTF? It's ridiculous. [/ QUOTE ] I used to think the exact same way. I now cry a little inside when I hear about the land of the free and home of the brave. Those terms have been so bastardized, it's just sad. We as a people have squandered such promise to be an example of all that can be good in the world. No other society in history had the opportunity we did as the last superpower standing, and we flat out blew it, and are blowing it more every day. Watching my fellow countrymen sing those words almost makes me angry that they can be so naive. (Actually, many aren't naive at all, they know full well what they're supporting and don't mind it one bit; e.g., Copernicus and FelixN.)
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#3
08-09-2007, 12:47 AM
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Re: Strange Question for ACists and libertarians
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I voted option 1. I love the national anthem. I think it's very moving. At the time it was penned the banner represented the fight against oppressive government, and was not a symbol of it. That's how I interpret it. I will NOT, however, pledge allegiance to a [censored] piece of cloth. I can't even understand how a patriotic statist can buy into that. WTF? It's ridiculous. [/ QUOTE ] I used to think the exact same way. I now cry a little inside when I hear about the land of the free and home of the brave. Those terms have been so bastardized, it's just sad. We as a people have squandered such promise to be an example of all that can be good in the world. No other society in history had the opportunity we did as the last superpower standing, and we flat out blew it, and are blowing it more every day. Watching my fellow countrymen sing those words almost makes me angry that they can be so naive. (Actually, many aren't naive at all, they know full well what they're supporting and don't mind it one bit; e.g., Copernicus and FelixN.) [/ QUOTE ] QFT
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#4
08-09-2007, 01:01 AM
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Re: Strange Question for ACists and libertarians
Can I answer? I'm not AC, but I am a civil libertarian who thinks that patriotism tends to be harmful in the long run.
Anyway, I take off my cap and stand quietly out of respect for my fellow fans. Many of them feel strongly about the anthem and our country, and it would be very rude of me to offend them. Ditto for church services.
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#5
08-09-2007, 01:10 AM
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Re: Strange Question for ACists and libertarians
[ QUOTE ]
Can I answer? I'm not AC, but I am a civil libertarian who thinks that patriotism tends to be harmful in the long run. Anyway, I take off my cap and stand quietly out of respect for my fellow fans. Many of them feel strongly about the anthem and our country, and it would be very rude of me to offend them. Ditto for church services. [/ QUOTE ] Patriotism is the fabric that holds a nation together and unites people that do not agree with each other 100% of the time and binds them to a common cause. Lack of patriotism is the reason Congress looks more like Parliament than it does the Congresses of the 60s through 80s and the reason that selfish interests trump the national interest. It is isnt patriotism itself that can be harmful in the long run, it is allowing patriotism to replace rational thought. One doesnt necessarily lead to the other.
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#6
08-09-2007, 12:57 AM
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Re: Strange Question for ACists and libertarians
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I voted option 1. I love the national anthem. I think it's very moving. At the time it was penned the banner represented the fight against oppressive government, and was not a symbol of it. That's how I interpret it. I will NOT, however, pledge allegiance to a [censored] piece of cloth. I can't even understand how a patriotic statist can buy into that. WTF? It's ridiculous. [/ QUOTE ] I used to think the exact same way. I now cry a little inside when I hear about the land of the free and home of the brave. Those terms have been so bastardized, it's just sad. We as a people have squandered such promise to be an example of all that can be good in the world. No other society in history had the opportunity we did as the last superpower standing, and we flat out blew it, and are blowing it more every day. Watching my fellow countrymen sing those words almost makes me angry that they can be so naive. (Actually, many aren't naive at all, they know full well what they're supporting and don't mind it one bit; e.g., Copernicus and FelixN.) [/ QUOTE ] There is a big difference between "not minding it one bit" and recgonizing that the real world sometimes involves compromising in order to survive. Don't put words in my mouth or assume you know what I think.
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#7
08-09-2007, 09:08 AM
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Re: Strange Question for ACists and libertarians
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I voted option 1. I love the national anthem. I think it's very moving. At the time it was penned the banner represented the fight against oppressive government, and was not a symbol of it. That's how I interpret it. I will NOT, however, pledge allegiance to a [censored] piece of cloth. I can't even understand how a patriotic statist can buy into that. WTF? It's ridiculous. [/ QUOTE ] I used to think the exact same way. I now cry a little inside when I hear about the land of the free and home of the brave. Those terms have been so bastardized, it's just sad. We as a people have squandered such promise to be an example of all that can be good in the world. No other society in history had the opportunity we did as the last superpower standing, and we flat out blew it, and are blowing it more every day. Watching my fellow countrymen sing those words almost makes me angry that they can be so naive. (Actually, many aren't naive at all, they know full well what they're supporting and don't mind it one bit; e.g., Copernicus and FelixN.) [/ QUOTE ] There is a big difference between "not minding it one bit" and recgonizing that the real world sometimes involves compromising in order to survive. Don't put words in my mouth or assume you know what I think. [/ QUOTE ] So you admit that you don't mind sacrificing freedoms and principles for perceived security. Which was the point.
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#8
08-09-2007, 09:12 AM
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Re: Strange Question for ACists and libertarians
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I voted option 1. I love the national anthem. I think it's very moving. At the time it was penned the banner represented the fight against oppressive government, and was not a symbol of it. That's how I interpret it. I will NOT, however, pledge allegiance to a [censored] piece of cloth. I can't even understand how a patriotic statist can buy into that. WTF? It's ridiculous. [/ QUOTE ] I used to think the exact same way. I now cry a little inside when I hear about the land of the free and home of the brave. Those terms have been so bastardized, it's just sad. We as a people have squandered such promise to be an example of all that can be good in the world. No other society in history had the opportunity we did as the last superpower standing, and we flat out blew it, and are blowing it more every day. Watching my fellow countrymen sing those words almost makes me angry that they can be so naive. (Actually, many aren't naive at all, they know full well what they're supporting and don't mind it one bit; e.g., Copernicus and FelixN.) [/ QUOTE ] There is a big difference between "not minding it one bit" and recgonizing that the real world sometimes involves compromising in order to survive. Don't put words in my mouth or assume you know what I think. [/ QUOTE ] *shoves words in mouth* [/ QUOTE ]
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#9
08-09-2007, 02:54 AM
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Re: Strange Question for ACists and libertarians
[ QUOTE ]
I voted option 1. I love the national anthem. I think it's very moving. At the time it was penned the banner represented the fight against oppressive government, and was not a symbol of it. That's how I interpret it. [/ QUOTE ] QFT. I usually get goosebumps towards the end.
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#10
08-09-2007, 03:01 AM
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Re: Strange Question for ACists and libertarians
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I voted option 1. I love the national anthem. I think it's very moving. At the time it was penned the banner represented the fight against oppressive government, and was not a symbol of it. That's how I interpret it. [/ QUOTE ] QFT. I usually get goosebumps towards the end. [/ QUOTE ] I didnt taint the poll by voting, since it was restricted. I sing ours and the Canadian anthem when its played, even though Im not Canadian. They are both very moving and reflect on the best of Western values. As far as Owsley goes, I respect his right to free speech. As a veteran I also hope he pulls that in the midst of a group of veterans and they teach him a life long lesson about the practical limits of free speech.
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