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#1
11-21-2007, 01:34 PM
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NL400 AK on static board
Villain has a really dumb all-caps username and is a complete unknown. Hero is playing a 15/9 TAG, but in villain's view I am most likely a complete unknown as well (if he's even thinking about it).
On the flop, the board is so static that a 3/4+ pot bet seems to only get called by better hands. I was looking to get called by pocket pairs and weaker kings, or possibly get check-raised by a frisky unknown. This would be my standard bet with my range on this board. Who bets more here, and why? Does anybody check here, planning to bet the other two streets? The worst possible card comes out on the turn, so I check behind for pot control. I don't see a lot of hands that are beating me folding, nor do I see a lot of hands that are losing to me calling, so I check. Does anybody bet here, and why? On the river, obviously the minimum I'm doing is calling. Does anybody raise as their default play? Why? Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 7 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter BB: $304.10 UTG: $400 UTG+1: $560.20 MP: $71.10 CO: $402 Hero (BTN): $449 SB: $424.50 Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN) UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $4, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $18</font>, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls $14 Flop: ($42) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players) UTG+1 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $24</font>, UTG+1 calls $24 Turn: ($90) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players) UTG+1 checks, Hero checks River: ($90) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">UTG+1 bets $4</font>, Hero ... <font color="red"> </font> <font color="red"> </font> 
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#5
11-21-2007, 04:12 PM
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Re: NL400 AK on static board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I like a call on the river, b/c if he reraises you your toast. [/ QUOTE ] Eh, we don't have to call a re-raise... [/ QUOTE ] SABR42, what hands call us for value if we raise on the river that are losing (of which I can only think of KJ)? If there aren't any, what hands will fold that are beating us if we raise (baby flushes are calling, monster flushes are calling/raising, full houses are definitely raising)? Those are basically the only two reasons I can think of for raising the river. If he checked to me on this board, I would probably just check to showdown and laugh if I see a monster.
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#6
11-21-2007, 04:16 PM
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Re: NL400 AK on static board
That turn card really is the worst card in the deck like you said. As much as I hate it i'm just flat calling the river unless you have a horrible image/sick history vs him which you don't.
EDIT: Just realized you said villan was really dumb, is he dumb enough to pay you off with any king or something even worse like 1010? If so I would valuebet to like 30 and fold if he re-raises.
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#7
11-21-2007, 04:17 PM
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Re: NL400 AK on static board
We can get called by any K, or God knows what lower pair he was blocking with because he seems awful.
Yes, if you raise you are going to have the worst hand some of the time, but if you never v-bet the worst hand you aren't v-betting enough.
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#8
11-21-2007, 04:31 PM
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Re: NL400 AK on static board
I'd just call the $4 bet.
Of the likely hands that beat us, the Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the turn gives KQ two pair, and any FD picks up a flush. Other unlikely hads that beat us by the river include any suited connector 4Xs and 99 (who called the cb and got luck in the river). Unlikely hands that might beat us inlclude K9s (2-pair) and JT is a straight, but they would have (should have) folded either preflop or on the flop. And I suppose QQ is possible, but that would have required the unlikely limp/call with it preflop, the unlikely call of the cb, and a very lucky turn card. So, we can probably disregard QQ too. Somewhat likely hands that we beat the might call a river raise are KJ and KT. But KT should have/would have folded to your preflop raise. That pretty much leaves KJ, and more likely KJs than KJo. As for K2s,K3s,K5s,K6s,K7s, and K8s, I think it's wishful thinking on our part to see villain get all the way to the river with that kind of hand only to call a raise given the paired board with 3-diamonds on it. He'd need to be blind and bad to do that. Then, of course, there is the off chance that he is bluffing with virutally nothing. So, if you raise for value, KJs calls, but that is only 4 combinations vs a whole lot of other combinations of other likely hands that beat you. And any post oak bluffs with air obviously fold. I can't see JJ, TT or 55-88 getting to the river only to min-bet/call a raise. If they get to the river at all, then they don't call a raise over their small lead. And I can't see Qx, like QJs, getting to the river, eithier. So, I'd just call and expect KQ, a flush, or a lucky 99 pretty often.
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#9
11-21-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: NL400 AK on static board
[ QUOTE ]
That turn card really is the worst card in the deck like you said. As much as I hate it i'm just flat calling the river unless you have a horrible image/sick history vs him which you don't. EDIT: Just realized you said villan was really dumb, is he dumb enough to pay you off with any king or something even worse like 1010? If so I would valuebet to like 30 and fold if he re-raises. [/ QUOTE ] I said he had a really dumb all-caps name (a variation of "DONKEY") which probably isn't very relevant. The river min-bet by itself may be pretty donkey, but it could all be part of this guy's image. It was probably deliberate, also, because he paused for 2-3 seconds before doing it. Finally, I wanted to see the showdown so I could make a note on him and hopefully have better decisions in the future. If he reraises then I don't really learn anything, other than the donk-min-bets are more likely to get 3-bet. SABR, I understand what you're saying. Do you think that raising is the best line against an unknown? Anyway, results: River: ($90) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">UTG+1 bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4 Results: $98 Pot ($3 Rake) (in white) <font color="white">UTG+1 showed 5c 5s (two pair, Fives and Fours) and LOST (-$46 NET) Hero showed Ac Ks (two pair, Kings and Fours) and WON $95 (+$49 NET) </font>
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#10
11-21-2007, 04:44 PM
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Re: NL400 AK on static board
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] That turn card really is the worst card in the deck like you said. As much as I hate it i'm just flat calling the river unless you have a horrible image/sick history vs him which you don't. EDIT: Just realized you said villan was really dumb, is he dumb enough to pay you off with any king or something even worse like 1010? If so I would valuebet to like 30 and fold if he re-raises. [/ QUOTE ] I said he had a really dumb all-caps name (a variation of "DONKEY") which probably isn't very relevant. The river min-bet by itself may be pretty donkey, but it could all be part of this guy's image. It was probably deliberate, also, because he paused for 2-3 seconds before doing it. Finally, I wanted to see the showdown so I could make a note on him and hopefully have better decisions in the future. If he reraises then I don't really learn anything, other than the donk-min-bets are more likely to get 3-bet. SABR, I understand what you're saying. Do you think that raising is the best line against an unknown? Anyway, results: River: ($90) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">UTG+1 bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4 Results: $98 Pot ($3 Rake) (in white) <font color="white">UTG+1 showed 5c 5s (two pair, Fives and Fours) and LOST (-$46 NET) Hero showed Ac Ks (two pair, Kings and Fours) and WON $95 (+$49 NET) </font> [/ QUOTE ] Ok my bad, I misread. Then yeah I do what you did and flatcall even though I saw the results, it def is the correct play as long as you have no crazy history/know for sure he's an idiot which you said you don't.
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