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#782
10-17-2007, 11:43 PM
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Re: Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes
I ask- because apparently Iovation is the fraud consultant used by Absolute Poker and is supposed to be an industry leader in preventing online fraud.
Among their claims... The solution links physical devices (PCs) and online accounts and can facilitate the sharing of device reputations among subscribers. I'm not trying to stir anything up- and they are likely a very legit company- but don't we suspect at various times this started happening after a recent update? To be clear: I mostly ask because they are also nine.com's consultant. |
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#783
10-17-2007, 11:44 PM
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Re: Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes
[ QUOTE ]
+4 diggs by xmichael 7 hours ago This guy is banned from nearly every "real" poker room in Costa Rica for trying to cheat, there is no doubt he would be cheating online! Comment on digg [/ QUOTE ] Sounds like this guy has some info. Time for the Chris Hansen treatment. xmichael, why don't you have a seat? over here. please, over here. |
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#784
10-17-2007, 11:52 PM
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Re: Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes
[ QUOTE ]
Guys, please refrain from witch hunts for now. It is pretty scary and could get us into trouble. We have absolute by the balls and we should just keep up the pressure on spreading the news of what we 100% KNOW is cheating. [/ QUOTE ] Seriously, all this Myspace stuff and chat that doesn't even really implicate anything is making it look like you guys are really grasping at straws to try to lynch Seif. There's very little reason (other than the open-folding 522 HU thing from whenever which may not even be true) why he should even be suspected of wrongdoing in this. |
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#785
10-17-2007, 11:53 PM
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Re: Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes
[ QUOTE ]
1) the team at Absolute that created the hand-dealing algorithm would approve their software having this feature. I would hope no single person would be allowed to design such a critical part of the program without oversight from others and they would stop such an egregious programming flaw from being implemented. However, after reading these threads it seems all bets are off concerning rigorousness from AP. Maybe the person went in and modified the program later without anyone noticing, I guess you can't put anything past AP. [/ QUOTE ] If this part of the program was put in at the highest levels, it's certainly possible. Just a theory, mind you. If I was writing the software I wouldn't write anything to the database to have anything to query until the hand was complete, so the only thing that would know what the state of the current hand was would be the server application's current memory. Another possibility combines the two ideas; an account that causes all hands to be sent instead of just the user's hand. Or maybe the code that sends all the cards requires the player to be an observer because that's done with a different part of the code? And is the location of the leak? [ QUOTE ] 2) If this information was being sent out to all players I would think that somebody with much more computer savvy than me would have noticed that "extra" information was being sent from the Absolute servers and, even if they didn't know what is was or how to handle the encryption, they would have made it public before now. I suppose, though, that if someone did somehow crack the encryption he would probably keep it to himself and utilize it for profit. Maybe someone did that, told his buddies and now there is a legion of cheats out there, who knows? Does this make sense? [/ QUOTE ] How many people do you honestly think analyze network data to look for holes like that? Absolute Poker has about 2400 cash players on it at most at any given time. Lets say that it has 20000 total cash players (probably a very high estimate I would guess). How many of those do you think are software savvy enough to either 1) hack the encryption (without knowing what algorithm it is), or 2) decompile the program and look through the assembly to figure out the packet format after it's stored? These, while not impossible, are not trivial programming tasks and things I would expect only from very experienced hackers. |
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#786
10-17-2007, 11:54 PM
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Re: Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes
Druff's original (payback cheated players) solution didn't bother me as much as the flow of the conversation. Before the security guy gave up anything, he asked Druff what he knew. Asked him, in effect, to turn over his cards...
A few people have touched on what I feel is AP's only valid response if they want to survive. Full disclosure. Aggressive pursuit of perpetrators (assuming it's not themselves). Independent, completely unbiased audit. If I was running AP, I'd attempt to completely turn this around by showing I had the most extensive auditing in the business starting today. The cost would be negligible considering all the support people they'd otherwise have to hire to handle all the "someone can see my hole cards on my .01/.02 tbl!" e-mails... |
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#788
10-18-2007, 12:01 AM
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Re: Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Guys, please refrain from witch hunts for now. It is pretty scary and could get us into trouble. We have absolute by the balls and we should just keep up the pressure on spreading the news of what we 100% KNOW is cheating. [/ QUOTE ] Seriously, all this Myspace stuff and chat that doesn't even really implicate anything is making it look like you guys are really grasping at straws to try to lynch Seif. There's very little reason (other than the open-folding 522 HU thing from whenever which may not even be true) why he should even be suspected of wrongdoing in this. [/ QUOTE ] This is absolute BS imo. HE POSTED THE STONEWALLING IN HIS BLOG , and his chat in the tourney is incredibly defensive. There is every [censored] reason in the world to suspect him. We KNOW about POTRIPPER. We SUSPECT Seif. This distinction is as clear as it's ever been, so there's no reason to stop investigating now. You can debate what place (if any) Seif should have in the new Cliffsnotes, and maybe none is the correct answer. BUT STOP TELLING US TO STOP DISCUSSING IT. HE LOOKS [censored] GUILTY AS [censored]. |
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#789
10-18-2007, 12:07 AM
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Re: Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes
The guy who started up Iovation also started up Ultimate Bet, or at least the shell software company behind UB. He frequently appears in Phil Hellmuth blogs. His name is Greg Pierson. If you google his name you'll get a bunch of Hellmuths blogs about him.
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#790
10-18-2007, 12:08 AM
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Re: Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Well I'm off to bed (just took some painkillers for a recent injury), but wish you all luck with the investigations. [/ QUOTE ] Broken nose? PLO is not your game. [/ QUOTE ] yeah, caught an elbow to the face. Duh PLO isn't my game, but I'm up like 10 buyins now at 200nl |
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