Weird Bluff 25/50 - Page 2

cashy · #11 10-01-2007, 07:41 PM

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Its a valuebet because you are ahead >50%. Just because you may have a negative expectation if the hand continues, does not affect the reason behind the bet on that street at that time. The value lies in the pot won with this bet.

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?
So you are saying that a bet which never get called by worse can be a valuebet just because u are ahead of Villains range?
Wtf?

This obviously is a bluff ...

g-p · #12 10-01-2007, 07:49 PM

"Its a valuebet because you are ahead >50%. "

50% of his betting range or 50% of his calling range? they shouldnt be the same for most people

jlocdog · #13 10-01-2007, 08:24 PM

gp,

>50% of his betting range.

Cashy,

Technically, yes. The value lies in winning the pot rather then losing it. If we want to quibble over the semantics.....what constitutes a bluff from a valuebet are the motives behind the bet though.

I personally viewed this bet as a form of protecting his hand. He is rarely if ever going to get action from worse hands on the turn/river yet he has the best hand quite often here. So by calling the flop bet he gives his opponent a free shot at beating him (by outdrawing or bluffing) all while never extracting another dime.

Ansky · #14 10-01-2007, 08:32 PM

so you are calling a shove?

jlocdog · #15 10-01-2007, 08:44 PM

Ansky,

No. Is b/f not ever a value line?

We may be ahead of his betting range >50% but we are probably a decisive underdog to his reraising range here.

Kala1928 · #16 10-01-2007, 08:51 PM

Seems like an awfully thin spot to go for a 'we have his betting range crushed 60-40' raise. Looks like a good spot to semibluff vs Ax since he cant really have AxKs. Occasionally you also catch him stealing and win an extra 400$.
I wouldn't even mind check/calling (semibluffcalling!) if we have some good information on whether the villain would do this with naked Ks/air and would he often fire again.

ActionJeff · #17 10-01-2007, 08:52 PM

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I like it, but I don't like calling it a bluff. You are much > 50% vs his range IMO.

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its certainly not a valuebet, he's never calling with JJ. what is it?

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ru calling a shove?

ZeeJustin · #18 10-01-2007, 10:54 PM

Lol, I didn't mean to create this discussion. You can't just simply classify it as a bluff or a value bet.

It's partially a semi-bluff because ideally we want better hands to fold, yet almost always have 7+ outs when beat.

And it's partially a protective bet, because we get worse hands to fold.

Not every bet is either a value bet or a bluff. Point in case.

0evg0 · #19 10-01-2007, 11:02 PM

this is silly

the_dal_kid · #20 10-01-2007, 11:27 PM

This reminds me of a hand Barry G talked about once where he called a guy down on flop/turn on a KTxx board holding 77 because he thought the other guy was bluffing.

The river blanked and the other guy checked and Barry could "clearly tell that he was giving up in the hand". Barry checks and opponent turns over 88 and Barry goes on about how the proper play in that spot was to BET the river "just in case."

Anyways what I took away from that was that even if you feel like you *probably* have the best hand in a spot but there's a chance that the other guy has you beat but you ALSO FEEL that the other guy can't handle any heat with his better hand then you should just bet/raise anyways to remove confusion and take down the pot.

Also in CTS' new video he flops a pair of deuces from the sb on a 525 board or something and he fires and says something like "I don't expect to get called by a worse hand but I just want to take this pot down now" or something like that.