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#21
08-18-2007, 05:25 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm quite certain I do in fact play against tricky opponents at your levels, champ. Interestingly enough, on 2p2 which is chock full of brilliant responses such as HAHAHAHAHA SHOVE SHOVE SHOVE PWNAMENTS OBV SHOVE SPOT HAHAHAA, you chose to claim that MY commentary doesn't help you at all. Intriguing that you posted it b/c you were "confused" - you've responded several times within an hour that you have him on a set hand range and that he can't have anything you beat. Doesn't seem like you're all that confused to me. Your opponent can never have 99/TT here? The aforementioned T9 of hearts etc? Air? I'm not sure why you think AA/KK are so prevalent, think he plays them like this? And the point about preflop play is valid. Not every hand is going to be a walk in the park for you where he calls and then hands the pot to you on the flop. If you can't proceed when you get bet into on a pretty good board for your hand, don't 3 bet pre. [/ QUOTE ] I never said I was "sure" that I was ahead, and I am legitimately confused. I was rationalizing my fold (rightly or wrongly). In any event I will ask you what type of competent player is going to lead into a pf 3-bettor w/ 99 here? Or, in the alternative, can you list all the hands that a player would donk into me here that I'm beating - when he KNOWS i'm aggro and will shove over the top quite often. 
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#22
08-18-2007, 05:41 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
He may be firing into you for reasons already mentioned, he's looking to induce a bluff/shove from your missed AK/AQ etc. Or, he has previous info on you that suggests he can fold out hands like marginal overpairs. If thats the case, his range includes plenty of air and certainly includes 88 thru TT.
You are also "beating" heart draws, although almost all of these will consist of AhKh/AhQh or combo draws.
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#23
08-18-2007, 05:55 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
[ QUOTE ]
He may be firing into you for reasons already mentioned, he's looking to induce a bluff/shove from your missed AK/AQ etc. Or, he has previous info on you that suggests he can fold out hands like marginal overpairs. If thats the case, his range includes plenty of air and certainly includes 88 thru TT. You are also "beating" heart draws, although almost all of these will consist of AhKh/AhQh or combo draws. [/ QUOTE ] You do realize that "inducing a shove" implies he has me crushed, right? And how often can you say he has pure air here - taking into the fact that he knows i'm very aggro? At this point you are almost conceding that this is NOT an easy push - as you concede that i'm only beating air or 88-TT (and those pairs seem HIGHLY unlikely).
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#25
08-18-2007, 06:05 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
[ QUOTE ]
Villain is HenryII. I don't have much of a read on him otherwise as we don't have much personal history. But he runs at 22/16.7/3.70. Thoughts? Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $5/$10 Blinds - 4 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter) SB: $1,851.00 BB: $272.00 UTG: $1,048.00 Hero (BTN): $995.00 Preflop: Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 Players) <font color="red">UTG raises to $35.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $125.00</font>, 2 folds, UTG calls $90.00 Flop: ($265) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">UTG bets $220.00</font>, Hero folds Uncalled bet of $220.00 returned to UTG Pot Size: $265.00 ($2 Rake) [/ QUOTE ] wtf. dude, just think for onesecond here. do you think he just MAY be with an overpiar under your JJ? or maybe draw+overs?
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#26
08-18-2007, 06:06 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] He may be firing into you for reasons already mentioned, he's looking to induce a bluff/shove from your missed AK/AQ etc. Or, he has previous info on you that suggests he can fold out hands like marginal overpairs. If thats the case, his range includes plenty of air and certainly includes 88 thru TT. You are also "beating" heart draws, although almost all of these will consist of AhKh/AhQh or combo draws. [/ QUOTE ] You do realize that "inducing a shove" implies he has me crushed, right? And how often can you say he has pure air here - taking into the fact that he knows i'm very aggro? At this point you are almost conceding that this is NOT an easy push - as you concede that i'm only beating air or 88-TT (and those pairs seem HIGHLY unlikely). [/ QUOTE ] fine Irish, your line is standard. nice fold.
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#29
08-18-2007, 06:26 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
[ QUOTE ]
dont really get why he would play AA/KK in this manner...i would typically shove. [/ QUOTE ] i'm not worried about AA/KK as much as I am a set
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#30
08-18-2007, 06:30 PM
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Re: fold JJ on raggy flop too weak?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Um push? [/ QUOTE ] Thanks for the insighfulness. This is AA/KK (or big hearts) a lot imo. I've shown a LOT of strength and he donk bets into me almost full pot. [/ QUOTE ] You rr'ed a CO open from button, that doesn't show any strength in particular. Some people do this as a bluff, some do it as a ploy to induce shoves, and if they do then they probably do it with worse hands than yours as often as better. You have one of the strongest hands in your range and you don't know what he has. Go all in.
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