To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunday

[ActionJeff]

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IMO the shady stuff that happens in online poker will never stop. It's well known that many of the high-stakes cash guys change accounts or screen names to misrepresent their identities, thus creating more (unwanted from opponents' perspectives) action for themselves. Further, many of us at MTTc stake people, who if they get deep in large MTTs, may essentially tell the stakee exactly what to do in every situation, so that while we are not directly clicking the mouse or typing in bet sizes, we are basically playing the tournament.

No disrespect at all meant to Mlagoo, but certainly some of you MTT guys at the house with far greater track records than Mlagoo were sweating and giving advice. I obviously don't know to what measure or extent this happened, and am not even necessarily saying its wrong or that I disagree with it, but it definitely violates the "1 person to a hand" rule.

I think multiaccounting MTTs is wrong, and I've never done and will never do it, but IMO its all on a continuum of shadiness that occurs everyday in the online poker world.

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I agree with what you've said except the stuff about Mlagoo. He played the entire tourney including HU completely on his own. I know some clown who final tabled was accusing him of getting help from gobbo or something but thats total BS. What do you guys know about mlagoo's play and what he is capable of anyway? Definitely an insulting assumption with no real basis.

Also, there is no real "1 person to a hand rule". Pokerstars has even specifically stated that this rule does not exist for their site because it is unenforceable.

Sorry to take this off track, but Matt was pretty unhappy with the allegations that he wasn't playing the tournament and I felt the need to address that comment.

-Jeff

[A_Junglen]

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No disrespect at all meant to Mlagoo, but certainly some of you MTT guys at the house with far greater track records than Mlagoo were sweating and giving advice. I obviously don't know to what measure or extent this happened, and am not even necessarily saying its wrong or that I disagree with it, but it definitely violates the "1 person to a hand" rule.


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Such a rule does not exist.

[stealthmunk]

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IMO the shady stuff that happens in online poker will never stop. It's well known that many of the high-stakes cash guys change accounts or screen names to misrepresent their identities, thus creating more (unwanted from opponents' perspectives) action for themselves. Further, many of us at MTTc stake people, who if they get deep in large MTTs, may essentially tell the stakee exactly what to do in every situation, so that while we are not directly clicking the mouse or typing in bet sizes, we are basically playing the tournament.

No disrespect at all meant to Mlagoo, but certainly some of you MTT guys at the house with far greater track records than Mlagoo were sweating and giving advice. I obviously don't know to what measure or extent this happened, and am not even necessarily saying its wrong or that I disagree with it, but it definitely violates the "1 person to a hand" rule.

I think multiaccounting MTTs is wrong, and I've never done and will never do it, but IMO its all on a continuum of shadiness that occurs everyday in the online poker world.

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I seriously go back and forth in my head each day about the ethics behind this. Especially when my stakee is essentially paying to be coached by me, and thus doesn't have a very big % at all.

IMO, the shady [censored] in online poker will never end. Sheets/bax/timex staking infinite idiots is no different than multiaccounting. Does it matter if you get 50% or 100% if you are creating a huge chunk of the 109r field? Obviously I think actually physically playing 2 accounts is unethical and scummy, but the grey area after that is just something that is accepted because its online poker. There will never be one player to a hand, and there will always be a threat that you don't know if you are playing against a superstar.

[AaronL]

Why don't you cut out the BS... if they are winning players then they are stealing... You like people who are petty thieves? your only real objection is that they are taking money that should rightfully be in your pocket... the only reason you're not outing them is because they are your boys... you don't give a crap if your friends steal or not as long as they don't take it directly out of your pocket... keep making post trying to make yourself look like some kind of poker superhero... the bottom line is you know people who are stealing and choose to do nothing because you get more out of having drinks with them on the weekends... The only thing you actually accomplished by making this post, to anyone with enough common sense to read past your BS, is to see that you, along with your "friends" are moral-less scumbags...

[ZBTHorton]

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No disrespect at all meant to Mlagoo, but certainly some of you MTT guys at the house with far greater track records than Mlagoo were sweating and giving advice. I obviously don't know to what measure or extent this happened, and am not even necessarily saying its wrong or that I disagree with it, but it definitely violates the "1 person to a hand" rule.


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This is a ridiculously awful post.

First of all, this rule does not exist online. It has been stated tons of times by Lee Jones in e-mails and posts on 2p2. So get off your high horse.

Secondly, you have no [censored] clue what happened in that tournament, and definitely don't have the right to accuse someone of doing something when you have no evidence to support it. It's things like this that hurt peoples reputations, and this isn't even a rumor, it's 100% pure speculation.

[ActionJeff]

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Well, there is no longer a grey line. There is no excuse. Multi-accounting tournaments is cheating! The sites have all specifically stated that this is cheating. Examples have been made and hundreds of thousands of dollars have been taken from people, accounts banned and more, to make it clear that this is cheating.

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There was never a gray line. How one could think it was, I have no idea.


I don't know if you were playing high stakes MTTs over 2 years ago, but there was a period of time when the TOC of UltimateBet did not even state that entering a tournament on more than one account was not allowed.

idiot who posted above,

Last response to these clown like posts. I don't give a [censored]. FYI there are plenty of people who multi account and who I am not friends with or outright dislike. That has nothing to do with it. I have 0 obligation to out someone doing something prohibited by the sites. There are dozens who have names like me who could report people if they wanted to. People who can say "I know who is doing this, and will report them in the future if they do it in the future" right now. They haven't done that yet. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they are like me and feel like they don't have the authority to do such a thing, and that it would place their own well being in jeopardy. It would be different if this was a ring of people colluding or something like that. I consider that to be different, and thats my opinion, and if you feel differently and want to be judgemental then that is your call but just be happy that I made this post to at least ATTEMPT to cut down on this practice and stfu with the personal attacks.

None of those guys wanted to take the initiative to start this thread though. So I'm doing it, because I want people to know about this, and I want the poker community to decide what to do about this on their own. People still multi-account, still act like it is acceptable as long as they can evade detection, and still brag about their multi accounting wins to their friends. Everyone should know this. Everyone should agree this is unethical and what actions they choose to take is completely their decision.

I did not make this post to impose on anyone with my opinions, I made it as a public service announcement to the MTT community. What opinions they form, and what they choose to do, is their decision.

-Jeff

[Arnfinn Madsen]

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Last response to these clown like posts.

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You can see it as clown like, or you can see it as genuine advice from people who have been in similar situations and solved it. You are looking to get the feeling that you have done yours and to get the feeling that you aren't to blame.

However you haven't done yours and you are partly to blame. You don't escape from that by making this thread. Unluckily for you some people who read between the lines viewed the thread and not only other MTTC'ers in the same situation looking to create the same illusion.

[stealthmunk]

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No disrespect at all meant to Mlagoo, but certainly some of you MTT guys at the house with far greater track records than Mlagoo were sweating and giving advice. I obviously don't know to what measure or extent this happened, and am not even necessarily saying its wrong or that I disagree with it, but it definitely violates the "1 person to a hand" rule.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculously awful post.

First of all, this rule does not exist online. It has been stated tons of times by Lee Jones in e-mails and posts on 2p2. So get off your high horse.

Secondly, you have no [censored] clue what happened in that tournament, and definitely don't have the right to accuse someone of doing something when you have no evidence to support it. It's things like this that hurt peoples reputations, and this isn't even a rumor, it's 100% pure speculation.

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This is a ridiculously awful post.

1. Gobboboy stakes Mlagoo.
2. Mlagoo realizes gobboboy is a superior MTT player
3. Gobboboy has vested interest (see #1.)
4. You actually think gobboboy isn't going to tell mlagoo what to do/give advice because of ethics? HELL NO. (people like winning money not losing $) Gobbo essentially multiaccounted to some sense, but its completely within the rules.


Also, another random thought of mine. I think buying someone's account deep is WORSE from a player's perspective than multiaccounting. For example. 3tables left in the million. Odds are I'm head and shoulders better than everyone else left in the field. Jeff buys "randomdonkeyidiot1123" account immediately to my left. That essentially cost me tens of thosuands of dollars of expectation. Whereas if Jeff just multiaccounted 2 accounts, odds are he busts them both before the money even hits and I don't feel the effect close to as much.

[ZBTHorton]

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No disrespect at all meant to Mlagoo, but certainly some of you MTT guys at the house with far greater track records than Mlagoo were sweating and giving advice. I obviously don't know to what measure or extent this happened, and am not even necessarily saying its wrong or that I disagree with it, but it definitely violates the "1 person to a hand" rule.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculously awful post.

First of all, this rule does not exist online. It has been stated tons of times by Lee Jones in e-mails and posts on 2p2. So get off your high horse.

Secondly, you have no [censored] clue what happened in that tournament, and definitely don't have the right to accuse someone of doing something when you have no evidence to support it. It's things like this that hurt peoples reputations, and this isn't even a rumor, it's 100% pure speculation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculously awful post.

1. Gobboboy stakes Mlagoo.
2. Mlagoo realizes gobboboy is a superior MTT player
3. Gobboboy has vested interest (see #1.)
4. You actually think gobboboy isn't going to tell mlagoo what to do/give advice because of ethics? HELL NO. (people like winning money not losing $) Gobbo essentially multiaccounted to some sense, but its completely within the rules.


Also, another random thought of mine. I think buying someone's account deep is WORSE from a player's perspective than multiaccounting. For example. 3tables left in the million. Odds are I'm head and shoulders better than everyone else left in the field. Jeff buys "randomdonkeyidiot1123" account immediately to my left. That essentially cost me tens of thosuands of dollars of expectation. Whereas if Jeff just multiaccounted 2 accounts, odds are he busts them both before the money even hits and I don't feel the effect close to as much.

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I'm not saying any of the above are not true.

What I'm saying is, I'm not going to stand by and let people completely speculate as to whether people were cheating in some way during a tournament. The speculation would never end. All of us have AIM. We could speculate that every single major win by a 2p2'r over the past 3 years has been tainted. That's not what this forum is for.

[WarDekar]

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No disrespect at all meant to Mlagoo, but certainly some of you MTT guys at the house with far greater track records than Mlagoo were sweating and giving advice. I obviously don't know to what measure or extent this happened, and am not even necessarily saying its wrong or that I disagree with it, but it definitely violates the "1 person to a hand" rule.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculously awful post.

First of all, this rule does not exist online. It has been stated tons of times by Lee Jones in e-mails and posts on 2p2. So get off your high horse.

Secondly, you have no [censored] clue what happened in that tournament, and definitely don't have the right to accuse someone of doing something when you have no evidence to support it. It's things like this that hurt peoples reputations, and this isn't even a rumor, it's 100% pure speculation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculously awful post.

1. Gobboboy stakes Mlagoo.
2. Mlagoo realizes gobboboy is a superior MTT player
3. Gobboboy has vested interest (see #1.)
4. You actually think gobboboy isn't going to tell mlagoo what to do/give advice because of ethics? HELL NO. (people like winning money not losing $) Gobbo essentially multiaccounted to some sense, but its completely within the rules.


Also, another random thought of mine. I think buying someone's account deep is WORSE from a player's perspective than multiaccounting. For example. 3tables left in the million. Odds are I'm head and shoulders better than everyone else left in the field. Jeff buys "randomdonkeyidiot1123" account immediately to my left. That essentially cost me tens of thosuands of dollars of expectation. Whereas if Jeff just multiaccounted 2 accounts, odds are he busts them both before the money even hits and I don't feel the effect close to as much.

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Umm I'm pretty sure that Matt specifically dis-regarded some of Gobbo's advice deep in the Mil, actually, and he even told me he went outside to play alone because he had too many people yelling different advice at him.