Don't be this guy

[psandman]

I happened to play at palace Station the morning they first installed the betting lines.hile sitting at the table waiting for the game to start, the locals nits now began a debate over whether a chip had to fully cross the line, or just a portion o fthe chip, and was it the outside edge of the line or the inside edge of the line that they had to cross?

[KurtSF]

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I don't think that was what was goign on here, but where would these "in front of cards" guys like a player to count his own chips?

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Just a shot in the dark here, but I'm going to go with "behind their cards".

[KurtSF]

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Any rule that forces a player to do something other than what he clearly inteded to do is a bad rule.

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Oh, and I agree with this. With the exception of when what they intend to do is an angle shot, of course. But in general if its clear to everyone what the intended action is it should stand.

I think this is generally recognized, and leads the the arbitrary enforcement of the rules by dealers that want players to be comfortable, which is, in the end, worse than not having the rules.

[RR]

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Oh, and I agree with this. With the exception of when what they intend to do is an angle shot, of course.

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Well I really would like a shot a dealing with angle shooters. I think the best way to deal with them is to just not deal with them. "I'm sorry sir, but you cannot play poker here anymore. You are more than welcome to play any of the other games the casino offers." When you start introducing more rules you create more opportunites for angle shooters, not fewer.

[RR]

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I don't think that was what was goign on here, but where would these "in front of cards" guys like a player to count his own chips?

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Just a shot in the dark here, but I'm going to go with "behind their cards".

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That is where the chips are normally stacked up. Perhaps they should put there cards out a foot where the dealer can easily take them from them?

[GreedIsGood]

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... No sir, that's just total BS, that's not a real rule, and everybody in this poker room is WRONG.

But then he keeps going... "I'm sick of this bull. All the time people keep using me to make an example of. Over and over it's 'that's a string bet' or 'you broke this rule' or 'you checked' when I didn't mean to. I'm just sick of this. Not just this time here, but over and over it keeps happening."

...

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You have to love someone who in one breath says that that's not the rule and in the next complains that he's called on it everywhere.

[Percula]

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I don't think that was what was goign on here, but where would these "in front of cards" guys like a player to count his own chips?

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Just a shot in the dark here, but I'm going to go with "behind their cards".

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That is where the chips are normally stacked up. Perhaps they should put there cards out a foot where the dealer can easily take them from them?

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With a big heavy card cap, yes. Just about every dealer knows not to muck cards with anything on top of them.

[Broke Rounder]

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I was that guy [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

In the first no limit tournament I played in many years ago, I used my chips to cover my cards. In the process of mucking my cards, I put my chips in a forward motion in front of my cards and mucked.

A player at the table brought it to the dealers attention. The dealer had to call the floor. The floor ruled against me. I had a dead hand and lost all my chips.

I learned the hard way.

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Why would you use your chips to cover your cards if you were going to muck your hand? Just curious, later.

[somapopper]

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But I'm less fond of betting lines.

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why? it makes things very clear.

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Only if there is a line judge. I have an essay here I have been working on for a few month (meaning I have an outline and I need ot go back and write it) about the problems with betting lines. Betting lines are clearly in smaller markets where people just don't shoot big angles. The main thing a betting line does is introduce new angle to shoot. One I saw most recetnly the other day is a player picks up some chips and throws them forward so they stop short of the betting line. Someone sitting next to the player can see they are over the line, but someone at the other end of the table jsut sees that he threw some chips forward.

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RR, in a case like this, wouldn't it be appropriate to simply ask the dealer if the bet is over the line?

edit to add: I'm pro betting line, although I don't have the B&M experience of most of the posters here, and certainly not as much NL B&M experience.

Poker tables are just naturally so cramped that it's difficult for me to manage my chips and cards without the line. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I think that for most non-veteran players it's a relief to be able to count out chips without worrying about an accidental muck or a stringbet.

[IndyGuy]

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I don't think that was what was goign on here, but where would these "in front of cards" guys like a player to count his own chips?

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Just a shot in the dark here, but I'm going to go with "behind their cards".

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That puts players in the 1 or 10 seats at a disadvantage, since to effectively cut out chips behind their cards would leave the cards exposed for the dealer to mistakenly swipe. Of course, they could put a chip on the cards to protect them, but isn't that then a call via these nit rules?