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#21
02-20-2007, 06:03 PM
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Re: I didn\'t protect my hand so I\'ll just play two random cards
[ QUOTE ]
Oh boy. Arguing whether a random comment applied to the OP or a counterfactual hypothetical based on the OP. What compelling reading for the other 9998 of us. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I just hate idiocy and he's put about 700 of his 900 posts in 2007 to that cause. Sorry. Although your first post "I've never seen THAT before" was about the same level of interest for everyone as well. 
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#22
02-20-2007, 06:14 PM
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Re: I didn\'t protect my hand so I\'ll just play two random cards
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Oh boy. Arguing whether a random comment applied to the OP or a counterfactual hypothetical based on the OP. What compelling reading for the other 9998 of us. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I just hate idiocy and he's put about 700 of his 900 posts in 2007 to that cause. Sorry. Although your first post "I've never seen THAT before" was about the same level of interest for everyone as well. [/ QUOTE ] If you hate idiocy, you might try previewing your posts. That way you could wipe out the stray HTML tags, random ALLCAPS, and assertions contrary to fact. Think globally, act locally [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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#23
02-20-2007, 06:43 PM
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Re: I didn\'t protect my hand so I\'ll just play two random cards
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If you're holding an 8 high (which is -EV against 2 random cards if you both see the river) and someone offers to give you $12 in place of running the hands, you should obviously take it. [/ QUOTE ] No. The BB did not have a hand. $6 limpers, $12 raise by the 87, and the $3 blinds. If I'm the 87, it's "Give me $21 and let's move on to the next hand or I call your raise, you have no hand, and I win your remaining stack." The 87s had all the power, why should he even consider the BB's offer? Even looking at it from what happened: $42 for 87h to call ...pot becomes total of $115 ( 2*54 + $6 from limpers + $1 sb) 87s is 47.936% vs random two cards. $115 * .47936 = $55.12 $55.12 - $42 call = $13.13 "profit" vs $12 "profit" taking his $12 back. [/ QUOTE ] maybe i'm crazy, but i'll take $12 with 0 variance any day.
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#24
02-20-2007, 06:48 PM
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Re: I didn\'t protect my hand so I\'ll just play two random cards
[ QUOTE ]
No. The BB did not have a hand. $6 limpers, $12 raise by the 87, and the $3 blinds. If I'm the 87, it's "Give me $21 and let's move on to the next hand or I call your raise, you have no hand, and I win your remaining stack." The 87s had all the power, why should he even consider the BB's offer? Even looking at it from what happened: $42 for 87h to call ...pot becomes total of $115 ( 2*54 + $6 from limpers + $1 sb) 87s is 47.936% vs random two cards. $115 * .47936 = $55.12 $55.12 - $42 call = $13.13 "profit" vs $12 "profit" taking his $12 back. [/ QUOTE ] This is of course patent nonsense, as raising garbage into a known all-in was a mistake as well. Hell, even if he didn't believe the all-in was going to happen, raising 87s to 12 when stacks are only 50ish is retarded. So his entire play can be analyzed as one big mistake. In a global sense, he was going to get only 47% of the pot and contributed half the pot. You can justify it however you like, but at the end of the day you lose money doing that.
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#25
02-20-2007, 06:48 PM
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Re: I didn\'t protect my hand so I\'ll just play two random cards
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] $13.13 "profit" vs $12 "profit" taking his $12 back. [/ QUOTE ] maybe i'm crazy, but i'll take $12 with 0 variance any day. [/ QUOTE ] I might too. But it was just amazing that two posters seem to think the 87s was a total moron for declining the $12. (I think he was a moron for other reasons).
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#26
02-20-2007, 06:49 PM
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Re: I didn\'t protect my hand so I\'ll just play two random cards
[ QUOTE ]
In this case, were *I* on the floor and had the players not decided to resolve this their own way, I woulda taken $12 from Mr.$54's stack, given him back $42 and pushed the pot to the $12 raiser. Yes, that's a little unfair to the $2 limpers who've already folded, but it's more unfair to the guy without cards to insist he hand over $54 to a player who hasn't even said "call" yet. But yeah, you may find a floor willing to do that. [/ QUOTE ] Would you make the same decision if 87s calls before Mr. $54 discovers his hand is missing?
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#27
02-20-2007, 06:52 PM
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Re: I didn\'t protect my hand so I\'ll just play two random cards
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] No. The BB did not have a hand. $6 limpers, $12 raise by the 87, and the $3 blinds. If I'm the 87, it's "Give me $21 and let's move on to the next hand or I call your raise, you have no hand, and I win your remaining stack." The 87s had all the power, why should he even consider the BB's offer? Even looking at it from what happened: $42 for 87h to call ...pot becomes total of $115 ( 2*54 + $6 from limpers + $1 sb) 87s is 47.936% vs random two cards. $115 * .47936 = $55.12 $55.12 - $42 call = $13.13 "profit" vs $12 "profit" taking his $12 back. [/ QUOTE ] This is of course patent nonsense, as raising garbage into a known all-in was a mistake as well. In a global sense, he was going to get only 47% of the pot and contributed half the pot. You can justify it however you like, but at the end of the day you lose money doing that. [/ QUOTE ] Again, his original raise was stupid. Agreed. His acceptance of Mr $54's "offer" was stupid. He had 'the rules' on his side and there was no reason to give the BB any slack. But, faced with "Take your $12 back" vs "Call $42 and play against 2 random cards", his decision was proper.
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#28
02-20-2007, 06:56 PM
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Re: I didn\'t protect my hand so I\'ll just play two random cards
So his play, after he made the first gross mistake, was less of a mistake than the other option. Nice.
No matter how it gets twisted around, he's -EV for the hand.
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#29
02-20-2007, 07:06 PM
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Re: I didn\'t protect my hand so I\'ll just play two random cards
Your original:
[ QUOTE ] If you're holding an 8 high ... and someone offers to give you $12 in place of running the hands, you should obviously take it. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So his play, after he made the first gross mistake, was less of a mistake than the other option. Nice. [/ QUOTE ] Nice to see you admit that you were obviously wrong.
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#30
02-20-2007, 07:15 PM
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Re: I didn\'t protect my hand so I\'ll just play two random cards
[ QUOTE ]
Your original: [ QUOTE ] If you're holding an 8 high ... and someone offers to give you $12 in place of running the hands, you should obviously take it. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So his play, after he made the first gross mistake, was less of a mistake than the other option. Nice. [/ QUOTE ] Nice to see you admit that you were obviously wrong. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, no, I'm precisely correct as is usually the case. Everything he did was one big mistake.
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