The ol' hidden high denomination chip trick

[traz]

meh, it might be hard, but I don't think the player should be penalised but getting some of his money taken away (effectively).

At the card rooms I've played at, I'll usually have 1-3 big chips at most...I don't like having a separate stack for them, so I just put them at the bottom of a tower. Once again, if you don't know how much you're calling, then its your fault...bottom of stack is fair game

[iron81]

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meh, it might be hard, but I don't think the player should be penalised but getting some of his money taken away (effectively).

At the card rooms I've played at, I'll usually have 1-3 big chips at most...I don't like having a separate stack for them, so I just put them at the bottom of a tower. Once again, if you don't know how much you're calling, then its your fault...bottom of stack is fair game

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I think that a chip stack should be arranged so that you should be able to come up with an approximation by looking at it. Can you put your high demoniation chips on top?

[Jeffage]

In NL games, high denomination chips must be in plain view (on top or in front of the player's stack). If a player intentionally obscures a high denomination chip from view, I believe most floor people will rule it doesn't play in this situation. Of course, to protect yourself you should always get a count before moving all in if it matters to you.

Jeff

[Jeffage]

Actually, it is a dirty trick - it is a standard rule in NL that all high denomination chips must be in plain view.

Jeff

[dtbog]

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Actually one point might be that I wish NL games would prohibit unusually high denomination chips from being in play... Nobody expects a $100 chip at NL1/2 with a $200 buyin cap, and nobody expects a $500 chip at NL2/5 with a $500 buyin cap. Just be careful out there.

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I've had both, but I've never been accused of douchebaggery, because I don't hide the chips.

Be careful out there. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[VORP]

I sat down to deal a 5-5 NL game the other day. One player had a stack of green completely walled off behind a bunch of red stacks. He was messing around with his chips though and so gave him a hand or two to make them visible but, when he didn’t, I politely told him that he had to pull the green out so that it was visible to the table. The guy acted like this was the craziest thing he’d ever heard. WTF? Even if he’d never heard of this rule (slightly surprising at a 5-5 NL) it’s not that hard to understand.

[RR]

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I was surprised the floor didn't ask more questions. Dealer explained what happened, but with no emphasis at all on the nearly invisible black chip neatly tucked away at the bottom of the blue stack (which may have something to do with the victim being a tourist and the angle shooter being a known-by-name-by-all-the-employees regular). But he did lay the chips out showing the stack of red and the stack of blue/black, and the victim did say the black was hidden at the bottom. Floor then instantly ruled "you said call, you owe him $143" and walked off.

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This is the problem. The floorman doesn't truly understand the issues, so he makes a ruling based on what he understands the issue to be. The floorperson has a responsibility to protect the integrity of the game, this floorperson failed in this reguard.

[traz]

meh, I guess all the card rooms I've been at suck, as I've never been told not to put my chips on the bottom, but obviously not in the back. The problem I have with putting them on top is I never know which stack I'll use to bet with...so I don't want my high chips on the top.

Oh well, I guess I'm overruled and the bottom is considered dirty...good to know

[pa3lsvt]

This is why, when facing an all-in bet, I always ask the dealer to count it, regardless of whether or not I already know my decision. If I don't plan to call it at least gives the impression that I had a decision. If I am insta-calling, it ensures I know exactly how much I am calling and foils the hidden big chip trick.

Well, if I have the stone cold nuts on the river, I won't be a douche because at that point I don't care what the bet size is.

[RR]

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meh, I guess all the card rooms I've been at suck, as I've never been told not to put my chips on the bottom, but obviously not in the back. The problem I have with putting them on top is I never know which stack I'll use to bet with...so I don't want my high chips on the top.

Oh well, I guess I'm overruled and the bottom is considered dirty...good to know

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I would say the bottom is ok, if it is clear (that is if you have multiple large chips they will be clear if they are underneath, if you have some stacks of chips and a single large chip put it on top, not in a stack but on top of your chips, that way you can just push it out of the way whenyou grab a stack to bet) . Behind your chips is never ok. A lot can depend on the chips being used in the casino, some casinos have chips that are too close together in colot etc. There is also an issue with all the artwork casinos put on the tables these days, often chips can get lost in that.

In the example of the OP $144 is a small enough amount (unless it is being played with all $1 chips) that the chips should be moved. Saying "all-in" without moving the chips is ok if there are so many that it is hard to move them, but putting them out into the center makes the bet amount clearer (if nothing else the chips are closer so everyone can see them better).

It has been a long time since I have given this any serious thought, but the people that say that large denomination chips shouldn't be allowed on the table might be right (even though I said the opposite above). I have never really seen the hiding chips as an issue, but I actively walk the floor and have told players that have the view of there larger chips obstructed that they need to make their chip stacks clear.