Razz - wimping out?

[Praxising]

I was pretty sure when this was over I could've jammed 6th and the river. But I had a real scary start to this thing and had just tripled up to get back in it when he reraises me on 6th and I think "Crap! Another hand gone bad he hit his wheel!" So I slow way down. The whole hand is a wimpfest. Results in white at bottom.

Tournament - Razz (60/120), Ante 10, Bring-In 20 (converter)

Seat 1: 270
Seat 2: 1,724
Seat 3: 1,039
Hero: 1,750
Seat 5: 1,419
Seat 6: 2,888
Seat 7: 2,962
Seat 8: 1,698

3rd Street - (1.33 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___completes

4th Street - (3.67 SB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (2.83 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (4.83 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___raises

River - (10.83 BB)

Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___bets

Total pot: (12.83 BB - 1,540)
<font color="white">
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,540 | Rake 0
Seat 1: folded on 3rd St.
Seat 2: folded on 3rd St.
Seat 3: folded on 3rd St.
Hero: aMurderofCrows showed [Qc 4c 5d 2c 6s 5s 3s] and won (1,540) with 6,5,4,3,2
Seat 5: folded on 3rd St.
Seat 6: folded on 3rd St.
Seat 7: folded on 3rd St.
Seat 8: showed [Jc 7d Ah 3c Qh 5h 2d] and lost with 7,5,3,2,A </font>

[RustyBrooks]

I'd usually jam in his spot too on 6th, because not only does he OFTEN have the best hand (if you have a 7, it's a 76) but he has a backup in the wheel draw, and he'll make a wheel or a better 6 like 20% of the time (he has 7 outs if I count right, 36ish unknown cards).

I think you did fine on this hand, btw. His river bet is awful. If he checked, I'd bet.

[Andy B]

I probably would have put in more action on sixth and seventh. I definitely would have put in more action on third and fourth.

[RustyBrooks]

I like a call there on 3rd sometimes. It conceals the strength of your hand, and I am not folding 4th if I brick, I think my hand is too good. 4th I might throw in a raise, but that's part of my style, many of my opponents will expect it. I raise a lot on 4th when I have a good 4 card hand and I have reason to suspect my opponent may not. (Yeah, I sometimes raise if I paired, or if I secretly have something not so great in the hole. Not too much though). In position on 4th I would prefer to raise here.

OOP I like a check-call quite a bit. In almost all cases your opponent will not be able to resist a bet. You can either now check-raise or check-call to simulate a pair or a hand you suspect is worse than your opponent's. You're already heads up, your opponent won't fold anything that has a chance in this hand. Raising sometimes makes future streets play out easier but check-calling definitely conceals the strength of your hand.

But anyway, that's not the case here, I think I like a raise on 4th.

That said, OPs meek actions on 3rd and 4th probably netted him an extra bb or 2 in this hand. Very hard to put him on a 6 with action the way it was on 3rd and 4th.

[Praxising]

[ QUOTE ]
I probably would have put in more action on sixth and seventh. I definitely would have put in more action on third and fourth.

[/ QUOTE ]Agreed. This is a psychological issue. I'd just had almost this exact situation, jammed third with my A24, caught the 5, raised and called and bricked and bricked and bricked.

So I got all leery and I backed off. I wouldn't have maybe in another trny, but I wanted to win this Satellite.

IMHO, wanting to win is the worst place to allow yourself to be. One point for the Buddha.

And Rusty? That's the first time in my life anyone ever called me "meek." Not arguing, just learning, I hope, my lesson here. Actually, the early meekness would have been a viable strategy for getting lots of bets out of him later if I'd just taken advantage of it and not gotten all paranoid.

[RustyBrooks]

You did get lots of bets out of him later. You got him to put in 3 bets on 6th as a 4:1 dog!! And then another bet on 7th with no chance.

I don't, in this case, mean "meek" as a psychological adjective. Just that, given the strength of your hand, you took a weak approach (no raise). Your actions there scream out as a 4-card 8 or 9, possibly even a pair, on 4th. I'd have probably gone to town in his spot on 6th also.

But, regardless of actual outcome, we raise on 4th and 5th because a LOT of the time this makes the hand easier to play. We just are not this lucky that often, to get a 6 on 5th.

[RustyBrooks]

And yeah, wanting to win can get in the way of things. But man, in the 2+2 tournament, not the SNG, the other one, I *usually* would have gambled in that one hand where I had like A23 and then bricked twice. Instead, I laid it down and left myself with less than 1BB, because I wanted to WIN, not risk it all and go out right there.