WCOOP ME - flop,turn,river decision

[NYWalker]

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Wow I guess fold river.
I have no idea though since I would never ever ever ever get to the river like this.

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Capitalized from villain's mistakes is a big edge in deep stack tourney.

Why you fold the river? Why not get to the river like this?

Edit: again, you will be surprised to see the other hand's showdown.

[Pudge714]

I don't mind the flop bet because the board is so drawy, but I would bet like 1800 and fold to a raise. Best case scenario you are up against like 75hh or something like that and it's a good spot for him to bluff since there are so many turns which crush your hand.
Once I get to the turn I really don't like the bet.
First it is way too small. Secondly your hand hasn't improved since the turn I except against AA or KK.
If you called the flop you didn't think he had a worse made hand he either has a semi bluff or a straight up bluff.
So c/c the turn. As played once he raises the turn I think you are toast. People don't bluff raise two streets and if he does you would have seen some of his overaggroness.
By the river you beat maybe AA or maybe some ridiculous threee barrel bluff and given this guy can't even raise preflop here I doubt he is making a crazy bluff.

[NYWalker]

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I don't mind the flop bet because the board is so drawy, but I would bet like 1800 and fold to a raise. Best case scenario you are up against like 75hh or something like that and it's a good spot for him to bluff since there are so many turns which crush your hand.
Once I get to the turn I really don't like the bet.
First it is way too small. Secondly your hand hasn't improved since the turn I except against AA or KK.
If you called the flop you didn't think he had a worse made hand he either has a semi bluff or a straight up bluff.
So c/c the turn. As played once he raises the turn I think you are toast. People don't bluff raise two streets and if he does you would have seen some of his overaggroness.
By the river you beat maybe AA or maybe some ridiculous threee barrel bluff and given this guy can't even raise preflop here I doubt he is making a crazy bluff.

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slow down a little bit. too much infomation will make you not focus on decision.

OK, go with me play this hand:

1. pf put him on a hand to limp in... his range: AA/KK is fine, pp, sc...
2. flop, we bet 1200 for value; he raises to 3200...
now, let's say he has a set or over pair and he gets value also protects his hand by raising, seems OK, but only 2000 more to charge a flush draw? (how much in the pot) *we see problem 1*
3. turn, we bet 2400 for value - ... he raises again to 8800.... problem #2 why not put us all-in if he has a better Queen? (especially it's a drawing board, we can have flush draw if he has a better Queen)
4. river, he decides to rep a flush draw now. But this contra his flop/turn... given his pf limp and flop/turn raise. Also, he already knew we had a Queen not flush when we check.

Conclusion: He has medium pair, CALL.

[Pudge714]

NYwalker,
You seem to think you are playing yourself. Other people think very differently. I think flop raise is a little too small, but I think his turn raise is perfect as it sets up a river shove perfectly.
You seem to come to the ridiculous reads and stick to them no matter what. What's more likely he is bluff raising two streets and shoving the river or he has a set/fd/QK whatever and is taking you to value town.

[NYWalker]

No offense. I'm just telling you how I play. It is very different from your play. But that's a profitable style but requires some additional thought or "ridiculous" thought like you said. You can keep play the way you play, you just don't pickup that 28K (35BB) stack from villain in this hand and don't pick up another 50K(60BB) stack later to become table chip leader.

If I show you all my hands in WCOOP 1K and 2.5K events, you will be surprised to see all showdowns.

Edit: when I check the river, I expect a shove.

[Pudge714]

Nywalker,
Do you see how contradictory 2 and 3 are?
2. He should aise more charge draws.
3. He should just shove you don't want to let people draw.

I rarely expect villain to have a flush here. I expect him to have full house or three of a kind.

You are basically taking every piece of information available and manipulating it to get to your conclusion.

[NYWalker]

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Nywalker,
Do you see how contradictory 2 and 3 are?
2. He should aise more charge draws.
3. He should just shove you don't want to let people draw.

I rarely expect villain to have a flush here. I expect him to have full house or three of a kind.



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2 and 3 are contradictory, that's why I don't believe he has a boat or better Queen at the turn.

The flop raise is very strange and weak, with SB yet to act, a set/over pair would raise much more.

The turn raise isn't big enough, pot has 10600 and I have 16000 behind, if he has a better queen or flush draw, he's moving in.

Given these, you still think he has a boat or better trip Queens?

[Eagles]

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Conclusion:I HAVE THREE OF ONE KIND, CALL.

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FYP

[MauriceSch]

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Given these, you still think he has a boat or better trip Queens?

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I has a boat, i should put in all my chips and not only a little part to get my opponent in with me.
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[djk123]

i think its fine to just fold to the original raise on the flop. on the turn i'd like c/c better than leading out. but ur bet looks so weak i'd have a hard time folding since he cud just read you for weakness.

river is a clear fold imo