Q8s in SB.

[Man Our Units]

OK, so obvisouly I messed up bad on turn by not c/ring more than to 6$. I now think I should have donked the turn for like ~10$. I think that donking and c/r are virtually the same thing in this example and that either way my hand is very transparent. However I might be able to get paid off by a lower flush/two pair my tag along on turn. Im trying to gain thoughts on how to play the turn. I think as played my river is a fold as I only beat a bluff, IE a smaller flush wont be min raising me here.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

Hero (SB): $57.40
BB: $28.45
UTG: $49.25
MP: $49.45
CO: $46.75
BTN: $49.40

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $1.00</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $1.00, Hero calls $0.75, BB calls $0.50

Flop: ($4) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 Players)
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="red">MP bets $1.50</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $3.00</font>, Hero calls $3.00, BB folds, MP calls $1.50

Turn: ($13) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $0.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6.00</font>, MP folds, BTN calls $5.50

River: ($25) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $10.00</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $20.00</font>, Hero folds

Pot Size: $55.00 ($2.15 Rake)

[agoldenbear]

Personally, I fold pf, but I'm really tight from the blinds, esp the SB.

on the flop i think that folding is overwhelmingly the best choice. MP could still RR the BTN's raise, and you'll be caught in the middle with just a draw. But since he didn't RR, you got great odds to draw at the second nuts.

you're right that there's almost no way to play your hand on the turn without giving it away entirely. But when you give your hand away like this, you have to bet big. You can expect observant opponents to put you on exactly the hand you have, which means their decisions will be near perfect. As played, you gave the BTN 19.5-to-5.5 odds, around 3.5-to-1, which is close to what he needs to draw at quads or a boat.

But when you review the betting, is it fair to put BTN on a flopped set?

His pf action is consistent with 22 and 77, but his play on the flop is kind of strange with a set on a two-flushed board. On the flop I want to say he has JTc or J9c, because of the minraise. He's not worried about protecting his hand because he flopped huge --- top pair and a flush draw.

But then his play on the turn confuses me again. The min bet into a $13 pot may be a sign that he completed his flush OR that he's worried someone else did and that his set has been outdrawn.

However, the min raise on the river should suggest he filled up. Tough spot man, but getting 5.5-to-1 on the river call, you just have to sack up and make him show you better. If he's betting a worse flush or trip jacks even 15% of the time, your call is break even.

[Antinome]

[ QUOTE ]
getting 5.5-to-1 on the river call, you just have to sack up and make him show you better. If he's betting a worse flush or trip jacks even 15% of the time, your call is break even.

[/ QUOTE ]

[1tripz1]

I just think this is a very nitty fold. You chose to play the Q8s, you made your flush, if he rivered a FH then take your medicine, your getting 5.5-1!

[Man Our Units]

I think this is a worse hand less than 15% of the time so I fold. LDO. What kind of hand does he take this line with that is not beating me. A lower flush? Unlikely, he would not min bet the btn on turned flush then call a 1/2p reraise then min raise the river. Thats ridiculous to think IMO, he might do this with a bare J but thats stretching it as I obv there is a flush draw out there and he would have had to misclick min raise or be downs. Seeing as people misclick less then 2% of the time and downs only affects 12% of people then I have a 14% chance of having the best hand so I fold. Sarcasm ppl.

[mitsu1775]

i'm folding preflop here as well, you have a very marginal hand at best, OOP in a multiway pot. As played, i can see a fold on the flop here as well. are you calling a 3rd raise if MP repops here? not likely (i hope not). turn, yes you are giving your hand away. i'm never folding this river here with the odds the pot is laying me.

[blackice781]

ok as played except i lead turn.

[wslee00]

please fold pf.

[Nytecaster]

Fold preflop. I'd only call if I were actually in the BB and if SB folds giving me opportunity to act first. Again I would only be in it if I could outplay the opponents who could potentially be in the hand postflop.

The position of acting first would give me an opportunity to make a play at the pot if it's a flop I somewhat like and feel I could semi-bluff with.

However I am atually in the SB with a raise already in front and the BB left to act behind. I'm folding this because I don't like the possibility of being trapped unless the BB is weak and folds a lot to raises. Then I would treat the SB as if I were in the BB. The downsides to playing are the price is not as good and the BB could wakeup with a hand and raise.

[Kasane]

Fold pf.

I think I'd fold the flop, too. You're oop, he's bet enough that you probably won't get that much value out of him if flush hits (you're so obviously on the flush draw, can't be anything else.) Acxc is out there still potentially out there(forget that it fell on the turn). And MP can reopen the betting big, really pricing you out (or in at barely ev0 or less if one of them holds a higher draw).

river bet is so small I'm going to have to call as it could have induced any other flush to raise.