Don't be this guy

[RR]

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I don't like the "edge of cards is your betting line" rule. And I don't like betting lines on the table. I know a bet when I see it and it doesn't require lines or cards to recognize.

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That is a perfect summary. Basically if someone ever says "hey, he went over a line, make him bet" they are shooting an angle.

[wonderwes]

Also don't ever be this guy. Worst chip stacker ever.

[psandman]

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I'm sorry. I don't understand why you find it more difficult to announce a bet in a tournament then in a cash game.

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Well it could be if you were unfamiliar with the values of the chips. Also what the "announce your bet" crowd ignores is that NL players sometimes need to count first. They want to count their own stack to see if an action is worth taking etc. In the old days this was not an issue, but people are wanting to make this like a limit game where moving forward can be considered a bet.

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I have never had a problem where I could not count my chips in a palce where no one could legitimately think I was betting.

I understand what you are saying -- but the simple fact of the matter is that if you reach out with chips to the location where most people put there bets, and start breaking down chips --- its reasonable for them to believe that you are betting. And this is true regardless of where your cards are located or whether there is a betting line.

[bav]

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...if you reach out with chips to the location where most people put there bets, and start breaking down chips --- its reasonable for them to believe that you are betting. And this is true regardless of where your cards are located or whether there is a betting line.

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Yes. When you reach out with chips, you're betting, not counting. But when you happen to have your cards tucked against the rail, you should not automatically have ANY movement of ANY chip become a bet because it's happening in front of your cards. And that's basically what was ruled. Let's try some ASCII artwork:

OOOOO <-5 stacks of 20 chips
OOOOO <-5 stacks of chips
OOOOOHH <-5 stacks and his cards
---------- <-Rail

The guy picked up a stack of chips, moved 'em over and broke 'em down into 4 stacks of 5, thus:

OOOO <-4 stacks of 20 chips
OOOOOoooo <-5 stacks of 20 and 4 stacks of 5
OOOOOHH <-Chips and cards
---------- <-Rail

And that was ruled a bet. Even though the chips he was counting were behind the frontmost chips in his stacks. I was displeased with this ruling and tried to point out the stupidity of this by asking why the 200K in chips in front of the cards in his stacks weren't part of the bet, too. I got one of those "don't you dare" looks from the floor so I shut up. I guess if the guy had picked up a stack of 20 chips from his stacks and set it right back down where it started, that woulda been a bet, too. It's absurd.

[Hass]

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I don't understand why people can't just stop being douchebags....guys that count out every single chip, guys that play out of a rack , constant string bettors, guys that can't figure out how to add up different denomination chips, etc.

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WTF? Why are you a douchebag for playing out of a rack?

[pfapfap]

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WTF? Why are you a douchebag for playing out of a rack?

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In some NL games I play, they use racks to make counting easier. But in limit, it slows down the game considerably. Even in NL, if you're not betting whatever's in the rack, pulling out chips slows things down. Maybe you're good at it, but most aren't, and there's no way that pulling some chips or a stack out of a rack and placing it on the table can be faster than simply sliding them forward on the felt.