Top pair, flush draw, multi-way

[registrar]

Just working through a few examples. Let's say you get two callers: a set of sevens and TPTK (black). You're 32% to win the pot. You more than triple up. Push, if you can see the cards.

If you run into AJd and a set of sevens, you're stuffed. That's the worst case scenario.

Pretty much any other odds check you can run of reasonable villain hands that would call a push, three way, you're getting the odds.

Heads up, let's say you run into a set of sevens, you're still 32%. It's not quite the odds you need so if the hands are face up you fold but it's still close. As we can't put villain on a set, I'll take the chance.

Let's assume black TPTK calls, we're 46% - making our play correct. If he has Ad, we're down to 40% so it's close, but still correct. If he has AJd, we're 50/50. If KJd, we're 43%

etc. etc.

I actually make the move with the odds, FE, and stack building in mind.

[nath]

jam jam jam

[los_toros]

[ QUOTE ]
jam jam jam

[/ QUOTE ]

[registrar]

Fold equity becomes more important later in the tournie. There are a lot pof variables but, in general, I'd want to to feel that there is substantial chance that the villains are folding. If everyone is deeper, then I'd raise hoping to take the pot or at least see a turn/river more cheaply.

Here as I said in OP, as I think someone is calling, I'm pushing. On balance, I'm probably not going to find a profitable situation before the blinds force me to play.

[rockin]

FWIW, I jammed. So, basically I shoved 1250 chips into a 520 chip pot.

Going over the HH of this tourny, this seemed a little over-aggro. By my estimation (especially with the play in the 180/4's), I am ahead here most of the time (pot odds wise). Seems like a pot sized bet here may have been better for extracting value and possibly inducing a reraise. Taking the hand down now is a nice addition to my stack, but if I'm ahead, as I think I am, then wouldn't I want to insure that I get a caller/reraiser?

Partial results in white below.

<font color="white"> I did get a caller after I jammed - UTG called.
</font>

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I jammed. So, basically I shoved 1250 chips into a 520 chip pot.

Going over the HH of this tourny, this seemed a little over-aggro. By my estimation (especially with the play in the 180/4's), I am ahead here most of the time. Seems like a pot sized bet here may have been better for extracting value and possibly inducing a reraise. Taking the hand down now is a nice addition to my stack, but if I'm ahead, as I think I am, then wouldn't I want to insure that I get a caller/reraiser?

Partial results in white below.

<font color="white"> I did get a caller after I jammed - UTG called.
</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said, I do expect a caller, which is why I jam. I get a caller, I'm happy.

If you think your top pair is winning, then go ahead and make a pot bet. That's fine. What sucks is making a pot bet, getting two callers, turning a brick and facing a raise and call.

[rockin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I jammed. So, basically I shoved 1250 chips into a 520 chip pot.

Going over the HH of this tourny, this seemed a little over-aggro. By my estimation (especially with the play in the 180/4's), I am ahead here most of the time. Seems like a pot sized bet here may have been better for extracting value and possibly inducing a reraise. Taking the hand down now is a nice addition to my stack, but if I'm ahead, as I think I am, then wouldn't I want to insure that I get a caller/reraiser?

Partial results in white below.

<font color="white"> I did get a caller after I jammed - UTG called.
</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said, I do expect a caller, which is why I jam. I get a caller, I'm happy.

If you think your top pair is winning, then go ahead and make a pot bet. That's fine. What sucks is making a pot bet, getting two callers, turning a brick and facing a raise and call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true, but if I'm potting the flop, it's with the intention of getting it allin on the turn. Also, when I say I'm ahead, I don't mean that in any other sense than pot odds as I think it is entirely possible that another player has a better Q.

[registrar]

OK, but I don't understand your problem with the hand. Do you think, if you played it differently, you could have tripled through? Do you think the other player folds a push and call but calls a pot bet and call?

I mean, the main thing here is that we want to raise but, because of our stack, a flop raise commits us, so we may as well push.

The other thing is that if we raise, but not push, and the turn is Ad, we give villain the chance to escape or in the worst case scenario, villain one check-folds, while villain two comes out betting...

[rockin]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, but I don't understand your problem with the hand. Do you think, if you played it differently, you could have tripled through? Do you think the other player folds a push and call but calls a pot bet and call?

I mean, the main thing here is that we want to raise but, because of our stack, a flop raise commits us, so we may as well push.

The other thing is that if we raise, but not push, and the turn is Ad, we give villain the chance to escape or in the worst case scenario, villain one check-folds, while villain two comes out betting...

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm not saying I have a problem with the results. I wanted just ONE caller. My problem with the way I played it, is that this seems to be over-aggro and could easily fold out the other 2 players, thus missing out on value. It's very easy for me to play to win pots NOW (I do it too much), but I'm trying to get away from that mindset in places where there is a lot of value to be gained. This just seemed like it could be one of those places. Not sure.

[registrar]

OK, I see. I don't think this is a case in point. The next card bricks you and/or scares them and/or makes them (some of these are mutually exclusive but you get my point).

Also there is metagame consideration in making strong and memorable plays.