30-60 SH One Hand, Several Debatable Decisions

2handed · #1 08-15-2007, 02:13 AM

30-60 Full 6max table
One limp, I raise with Ad Kc 5d 2c, Blinds call, Limper calls.

Flop 9 5 4 with two clubs (240), checked to me, I bet, 2 calls, Limper CRaises, I call, Other players call.

Turn offsuit 4: (480) Check, Check, Limper bets, I call, Call, Call

River another 4 (720) Check Check Bet, I raise.

Looking for thoughts on flop, turn, and river plays. I am putting Limper on a low draw and strong high draw e.g. wrap or nutflush draw. He hasnt really gotten out of line but has been losing since I sat down. Turn didnt seem to improve anyones hand, so I am guessing river raise will work sometimes.
Anyone typically re-raising the flop or raising turn here?

donger · #2 08-15-2007, 02:27 AM

I don't think you've represented a 4 here very well. Wouldn't a 4 donk or CR the turn? If you're not repping quads, what hand are you trying to sell here?

uminchu · #3 08-15-2007, 02:34 AM

i think he is trying to rep aces here

2handed · #4 08-15-2007, 03:03 AM

def AA since I am the preflop raiser. I know my hand doesnt necessarily look like AA, but I am trying to fold out small or medium pairs that the two others might hold because I think the limper usually doesnt have the four in his hand. I actually think my AK is good against this bettor a fair portion of the time.

donger · #5 08-15-2007, 03:13 AM

Why not just donk or call? This seems like a weird way to play it if you really DID have aces, so the bluff doesnt make sense. Am I missing something?

2handed · #6 08-15-2007, 03:15 AM

He is first to act and once he bets i have two players behind me. Sry if OP is unclear donger.

XXsooted · #7 08-15-2007, 10:56 AM

I like it

Rush17 · #8 08-17-2007, 03:44 PM

You didn't sell me either. I agree with Donger.

About having AA: if you REALLY did have AA, I think you would've popped him back on the flop, no? And, if you had AA, why would you even think of raising this river? The thing is, you probably wouldn't have. For one, if anyone DID have a pocket pair, wouldn't you WANT the overcall from them? And wouldn't a raise make it harder for those hands to call? Plus, on the offchance that he (or anyone else for that matter) had the 4 in their hand, then your raise on the river would only open the door for a 3-bet. And if the limper held 99, you're not getting rid of him either, plus he might even raise you back.

Point being, AA hands will almost never raise in that spot because they know that smooth calling will yield them the best results whether they are behind or actually ahead.

Also, I think your hand can stand up on its own, and I feel the only hands that you would get to fold are other AK holdings (which would be great if this guy is bluffing). So, did you think there was a good chance that he's trying to buy the pot? If you did, then I like your raise for that reason alone, because like I and Donger said, raising with AA just doesn't sound believable.

Personally, for me, it would've sounded a lot more convincing had you reraised him right on the flop, which btw, wouldn't have been a bad idea given your hand and your favorable position.

Shabamabam · #9 08-17-2007, 06:48 PM

Is this live or online?

Online - This will never work.
Live - I like it.

2handed · #10 08-17-2007, 10:39 PM

Shamabam- this was online, and it worked.

Rush- I was pretty sure he was trying to buy the pot here since it looked like everyone was drawing and no one had the four. Imagine however you were the small blind player in this hand and you called to the river with a hand like A277. This raise is going to be pretty hard to call without a really good read one me or the other player, especially because he faces the possibility of a third bet going in. I think flop bettor might also fold AK, remember he has been losing so once I put this raise in in a multiway pot he might not really think it through and just say to himself 'damnit, not again' and quickly fold.