phil gordon LGB starting hand charts

[smbruin22]

o.k., i know we went thru this before but i'm stumped again (and our thread was a long time ago and i don't think answered what i'm going to ask).

anyhow, here are the charts...

http://lgb.philgordonpoker.com/index.php?q=node/15

think i understand everything about these charts and their positions (early, mid, late, button, small blind = red, yellow, dark green, bright green and then bright green lettering on white).

but what i don't understand is the bright green on dark green, which occurs 10 times in total over the first three charts - not in the 4th chart but that's shorthanded)..... EDIT: for the average game chart (1st one), i am confused by QTs, JTs, KTo where it's bright green lettering inside dark green square)

i know from past experience that the book doesn't have any better explanation... any help would be greatly appreciated. it took me awhile to figure out the charts (and i wouldn't mind a 1-2 limper chart too - although phil and harrington have both really taught me that being first in is very important)

LGB is an outstanding book.... might even be my favorite of every book out there (i don't have the two new 2plus2 books yet though)

help greatly appreciated!

[cwsiggy]

going by KWscott's explanation

http://pokerforums.fulltiltpoker.com...ighlight=chart

I think it means - for example the bright green on dark green square JTs on the average chart means "play me from the dealer position (font color) but occasionally play me from the late position (square color) this makes sense as the unsuited JT is - play me from dealer button only.

[smbruin22]

cws, thank you very much!

[Deakon]

" so it makes sense with the white squares that they be as they are... You play those almost all the time from the small blind... "

Is he really saying to play 7-2o from the SB? It's a white square. Or is he just talking about the white squares with green colored font?

[smbruin22]

[ QUOTE ]
" so it makes sense with the white squares that they be as they are... You play those almost all the time from the small blind... "

Is he really saying to play 7-2o from the SB? It's a white square. Or is he just talking about the white squares with green colored font?

[/ QUOTE ]

it's very confusing.... but yes, if you include the white squares with dark lettering, then it's every single hand...... so i'd assume small blind is bright green lettering on white square. nowhere is this explained in phil gordon's fantastic book.

[Deakon]

Some of this chart seems a bit off. In the "Tight" chart, how can you be first to the pot and raising with 3-5 players before the flop average from the SB with 7-2o or any of the other hands that are white squares with black font color. If there are 3-5 players per flop, how can you be first to the pot from the SB?

I don't know about you, but white squares with black font are getting tossed.

I am probably reading too much into this, but I can't see coming in for a raise from the SB with these hands with that many players in the hand. It seems more accurate to throw those garbage hands away. If you are in the SB and you are first to the pot, maybe it would be better to peek over at the "Loose" chart since it pertains to a 2 player pot.

[smbruin22]

[ QUOTE ]
Some of this chart seems a bit off. In the "Tight" chart, how can you be first to the pot and raising with 3-5 players before the flop average from the SB with 7-2o or any of the other hands that are white squares with black font color. If there are 3-5 players per flop, how can you be first to the pot from the SB?

I don't know about you, but white squares with black font are getting tossed.

I am probably reading too much into this, but I can't see coming in for a raise from the SB with these hands with that many players in the hand. It seems more accurate to throw those garbage hands away. If you are in the SB and you are first to the pot, maybe it would be better to peek over at the "Loose" chart since it pertains to a 2 player pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

i wondered somewhat the same thing..... it's a game that on average is 3-5 seeing the flop. but since these charts are for being first in but you're in big blind, it does mean everyone else folded.... SO, you aren't coming in with 3-5 people in the chart. maybe he should just get rid of the later positions as 3-5 seeing flop game it won't be folded to you that often in small blind).

three generic comments:

as stated earlier, i would like to see a chart for 1-2 limpers already.

not sure how many tournaments or cash games there are with 3-5 people seeing the pot on average... seems somewhat high (not the 3, but the 5)

subjects such as a tight hand on a loose table or a loose hand on a tight table are very interesting. i'd love to learn more about that.

obviously phil gordon (and i'd say dan harrington) put alot of emphasis on being first in

[Deakon]

Are these charts the same from the Phil Gordon dvd? You can get a look at it at expertinsight.com and clicking on the ToolBox item and the some of the chart is shown there.

Hmm, I think the part of the chart on the site looks exactly like the shorthanded chart linked from this thread. I am not sure if there are more charts or not that comes with the DVD. This at least indicates folding from the SB with the junk hands. It says "fold or if in the BB, check." That should clear the SB/white box with black font stuff up.

[smbruin22]

this is actually a technicality, but i think the black on white might be considered the big blind.... so if the big blind is first in the pot, then they've won the pot. and obviously, big blind can play anything for "free" too.

probably a stupid comment by me....