25NL JJ in 3bet pot

[RapidEvolution]

UTG is 36/17/4 over 105 hands

No reads on SB

As for me, I've been running 16/13/oo


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">CO ($25)</font>
Button ($6.05)
<font color="#C00000">SB ($13.20)</font>
BB ($9.20)
<font color="#C00000">UTG ($19.90)</font>
Hero ($43.35)
MP1 ($8.50)
MP2 ($3.65)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $0.75</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB calls $2.90, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $2.25.

I 3bet UTG preflop since his pfr is pretty wide. I'm thinking his pfr range is something like 77+/AJ+/KQ. SB calls and villain calls.


Flop: ($9.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $10.2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $6</font>, Hero?

So 2 checks to me, and I fire. SB shoves and UTG overshoves. I'm pretty sure UTG's range is now QQ+ (if not KK+) and lord knows what SB has, so I fold.

Comments on all streets welcome. I'm wondering mostly about the 3bet preflop and the flop lead. (So yeah, I guess the whole hand was a mess lol)

[RJ78]

I think your preflop play is pretty standard. I also think your c-bet is a must. With UTG's aggression, I think he can check-raise even with 88+...especially if he thinks you are on overcards. I think you are giving him too much credit with QQ+. I just don't know about SB though. I think I might call, just because they are both all in and you aren't faced with more decisions on turn and river. You're getting 4:1 from the pot, aren't you? I've seen this often enough with 88+ on NL25 that I'd be confident that I'm ahead often enough to make this call +EV. I don't think a random 7 is likely and I think you'd have gotten more preflop action from QQ+ and definitely from KK+, so unless one of them has 44 or 77, you are in good shape.

JMHO,
RJ78

[RapidEvolution]

If it was just UTG and I, I'd agree 100% as he'd be getting good FE out of me if I'm on AK/JJ. However, SB is already in the pot, so whatever he has, (I'm assuming) he feels it's good enough to beat SB (who also check-raised). If I had KK here, I think calling would be a no-brainer as there'd be more hands that I was ahead of here. To call, I'm basically hoping villain has TT,99 or 88. Given the preflop 3bet, I'd find this to be a ballsy push for UTG even if he had QQ.

[da_fume]

SB has a good hand, good fold.

[RJ78]

Quite true...and I agree that SB complicates things quite a bit. I just can't get it out of my mind how often I've seen stupidity at NL25 where SB check-pushes with AT and UTG check-overpushes an existing push with a small overpair. I agree that heads up with UTG it's an easy call. Much tougher with SB in the mix.

[Sounded Simple]

I make it 4-1 pot odds, I think you need 20% equity, you can suck out with a Jack 10% of the time.
Perhaps you see some combo of overcards/88/99/TT here often enough to make up the other 10%? Pretty close.

Line looks ok to me.

[Sounded Simple]

[ QUOTE ]
SB has a good hand,

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be true but remember to consider pot odds.

[ship_it_trebek]

If his range is only QQ+ then even given the odds its correct to fold. However if we just add TT to his range I think it merits a call

Hand 0: 30.024% 28.02% 02.00% 6936 495.00 { JhJs }
Hand 1: 69.976% 67.98% 02.00% 16824 495.00 { TT+ }

[da_fume]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB has a good hand,

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be true but remember to consider pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true, I didn't see quite how close it was till now, I think I would probably call and not be surprised when it is QQ.

[random50]

What makes this tricky is I don't have much faith in the ability of either player here. A flat call from the small blind for 1/4 of his stack? Ordinarily you'd say there's no way he's raising you light on the flop here 'cos it must be obvious you're almost certainly going to call, but maybe we can't give him credit for that level of thought?

I also have a feeling you're overestimating UTGs pf range and wouldn't be at all surprised to see A7 or 56s from him.

Another thing to consider is the difference between SB and UTG stacks. This matters for 2 reasons - 1st as long as you're beating UTG you get at least some money back. 2nd if he *is* smart, he knows its going to be very tough for you to call *two* all-ins, making more marginal hands playable on his part.

Upshot? I think this is just about a call.