10/20... Another Turn Question

[4CardGrind]

Know nothing about other player...

FullTiltPoker Game #3662291499: Table Snow Peak (6 max) - $10/$20 - Pot Limit Omaha Hi - 21:02:32 ET - 2007/09/24
Seat 1: IamNotSoGood ($3,266)
Seat 2: Rollover2k ($2,474)
Seat 3: Gouldy7 ($2,097.50)
Seat 4: BigBuxNoWhammy ($161.80)
Seat 5: JuicyMango ($2,632)
Seat 6: Brad Booth ($0), is sitting out
BigBuxNoWhammy posts the small blind of $10
JuicyMango posts the big blind of $20
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Rollover2k [Kc 5s As 3c]
IamNotSoGood raises to $40
Brad Booth adds $800
Brad Booth has returned
Rollover2k raises to $150
Gouldy7 folds
BigBuxNoWhammy folds
JuicyMango folds
IamNotSoGood has 15 seconds left to act
IamNotSoGood calls $110
*** FLOP *** [6s 3d 3h]
IamNotSoGood checks
Rollover2k bets $200
IamNotSoGood raises to $660
Rollover2k has 15 seconds left to act
Rollover2k calls $460
*** TURN *** [6s 3d 3h] [7d]
IamNotSoGood bets $1,650
Rollover2k ?????

I mean, I am pretty aggro player so I expect to be moved on sometimes.

Thats why I have to just call flop, pushing obv shuts down a bluffer. But on the turn what do I make of this? I feel like this fold be a real tight fold. He has to assume an over pair for me I would think. So my thoughts were that any 6 was potting (which I beat most of), and of course the smaller percentage of bluffs probably pushes too.

Results below, please post first.

Mehhhh

[wazz]

3bet the flop, for sure. The fact that you sometimes make more money from having people bluff into you doesn't make up for the fact that you will sometimes run into tough decisions like you have done on this turn, plus you give people free cards to beat you, especially given that PLO players generally like to semibluff with outs (even if just 4) than pure bluffs.

As played, it's not the worst turn card in the world, villain could still be value-betting a worse 3/betting some sort of air that has outs suspecting you're only on an overpair, or just think he can move you off a 3. The first two are much more likely. You also have 3 outs to split should villain have been c/r semibluffing with an oesd. I virtually snapcall this.

[gordo16]

Your flop smooth-call makes this hand a tough decision. I think that you have to ask yourself why you are smooth-calling the flop? Are you doing it for value on a possible continue-bet bluff on the turn or are you legitimately scared of 36 or 66? IMO, if you are truly pretty LAG (which, from the few times I've played with you, I don't think that you are) then the flop is an obvious push. If not, then I think that you legitimately have to afraid of 66 pushing at you. What makes this tough on the turn is the fact that it also completes the obvious straight draw on the flop. As played, I think that you have to fold. However, I would not be surprised if he shows up with a lesser 3 in this spot either. I really think you misplay the flop here... Even though you guys are fairly deep, I think that you have to push the flop here.

[4CardGrind]

Good replies, I am liking this forum business.

I was just thinking of what I would do if I were in his seat and he pushed the flop on me....

At that point I am folding everything but 36, 66, 3Axx, maybe 3K**I believe. I mean, he knows I am not 3-betting that flop with AAxx. But then again maybe I am giving him too much credit for laying down random 3's on flop.

I guess the way I feel about this hand is I am getting the money in and turn card is negligible. So I figure flat calling flop, pushing turn gives him a wider range than 3-betting flop.

Yeah Gordo I forget we've played bit, ever coming back to UB?

[sc000t]

I agree with Wazz and Gordo. 3betting this flop is ideal here imo. You're opponents image of you is key in narrowing down his c/r range here because it would be hard for him to put you on a random 3xxx type hand making this a wider range to get you check/raised.

Flat calling the C/R obv leaves you guessing later on these turns. You have a strong enough hand on the flop and is hidden enough where I like the 3bet flop. Times I would like this line is when you were stronger (AA33/AA66/AA36).

As played, I think this is a fold. The turn card completes straight cards and it doesn't slow down your opponent one bit, making it less likely he holds a worse hand.

[gordo16]

Nah, there aren't enough high stakes games on UB... 25/50 is always running on Stars with at least a few tables... Plus I don't have the time or energy to run up a roll again.. I don't really want anything to do with AP or UB after their recent controvercies anyways. You play on Stars at all?

Welcome to the forum.

[iggymcfly]

I disagree with most of the replies here. I think flat-calling the flop is much better than 3-betting. Even if villian doesn't think we're always going to have AAxx here, he's certainly not going to put us on a 3, most people at least 3-bet with middle or high cards, and this is a very good bluffing spot for an aggro player. We definitely want to give him a chance to follow up on the turn.

Also, our hand is good enough that we're never folding the turn. I think villain's going to felt with any 3 here in addition to some bluffs and we almost have to be ahead of his range. Basically, we commit to the hand on the flop, but with position, we can let him continue to bet rather than 3-barreling it. I think in general, aggression is much less important on paired boards than in other PLO situations. The fact that our 3-bet has us playing shallow makes it even better to play this hand passively. NH OP.

[gordo16]

so you insta-commit a full stack plus some just because you flopped trips? with no read on the opponent, I don't think it's smart to assume you're good here.. I feel like so many high stakes players lose a lot of money on over-dramatizing the range of hands that people will 3bet with preflop.

[iggymcfly]

[ QUOTE ]
so you insta-commit a full stack plus some just because you flopped trips? with no read on the opponent, I don't think it's smart to assume you're good here.. I feel like so many high stakes players lose a lot of money on over-dramatizing the range of hands that people will 3bet with preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not "just because we flopped trips". Because we flopped trips top-kicker in a 3-bet pot on a board that our 3-bet range usually whiffs on. Unless OP's playing extremely aggressive, I'd say that our current hand is in the top 5% of our 3-bet range in terms of how well it connects on the current board. If you're willing to give up 95% of your hands just because an unknown check/raises and follows it up, you're playing way too tight and are extremely exploitable. And if you're going to play, you're better off allowing villain to bluff/semibluff you since he's never folding a 3 anyway,

[Petteri]

So you have no history and you 3-bet pre-flop. It looks like to IamNotSoGood like you probably have big pair.

You bet flop and get raised and just call. When you get raised you can usually assume that IamNotSoGood has 3 or wrap. You decide to trap and just call. By calling you represent two pair (aces and threes).

Turn completes wrap. I think IamNotSoGood will bet turn with trips or straight since you represent aces and threes.

Turn is really tough. I think you should fold. Many pre-flop raising hands containing 3 also contain 6 and if the has 45 you have 10 outs.