52s in SB - Ugly

[gobbledygeek]

I agree with the others; two pair is a decent hand so I'd check/raise the turn (or perhaps bet out if I was worried it might check thru) and lead the river if just called.

[ QUOTE ]
Fold the flop, as played CR the turn and bet river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero is getting 9:1 with only one to act behind him. I count about 6 outs (2 Twos, 3 Fives although might have to discount a bit for a spade plus a weak backdoor flush draw) so needs about 7:1. Easy peel, no? In fact, at my passive 2/4 table I'm probably calling this flop getting 9:1 even with lots to act behind me (although I'm not 100% that's correct).

GcluelessnoobG

[One Outer]

[ QUOTE ]
In fact, at my passive 2/4 table I'm probably calling this flop getting 9:1 even with lots to act behind me (although I'm not 100% that's correct).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure that's not correct.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can't peel this flop properly if you're not going to make more than this when you spike on the turn.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

getting 11-1 on his call, i disagree.

but that doesn't mean he made as much as he should have...

[/ QUOTE ]

Nit. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

You may be right. Don't forget, however, to count the times that he hits and is still behind to a flopped set/two pair; the times he hits and his "out" gives someone a better hand; and the times he hits and gets chased down on the river.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

sure this happens. but calling the flop doesn't commit us to calling the turn(not that you were inferring this). combine this with the fact that the bet size doubles on the next street and our implied odds if we hit on the turn are very good as are our effective odds if we don't hit.

the problem here is we hit our hand and fail to maximize value. this is what you were initially getting at, i think. if we can't raise the turn when we hit our hand, it's conceivable that we shouldn't be there in the first place. in this hand we can raise the turn, we just don't.

[Scarmiglio]

[ QUOTE ]
if we can't raise the turn when we hit our hand, it's conceivable that we shouldn't be there in the first place. in this hand we can raise the turn, we just don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rather, If we *don't* raise the turn when we hit our hand, it's conceivable that we shouldn't be there in the first place. In this hand we *should* raise the turn, we just didn't.

[AlienBoy]

You didn't say what limit, but maybe okay PF - in games where the SB is 1/3rd the BB, I often fold this pf. It's crap - not even on my starting hands chart.

Flop: Woowiee. Bottom pair, no kicker. How proud you must be. With backdoor baby flush gives you about 5.5 outs. That's barely enough to call (if even), but why not, you called PF with crap, call here too for a crapola fest!

Turn: Either bet out or check raise (then bet out river). WTF. No one has [censored]. You are best here nearly always. You're playing like a passive old lady. What makes you think MP has 2 pair?? WTF???

RIver: Retarded. After the weakness shown on the turn, you should be betting out here, unless you really think you can check raise.



General: The play here is weak/loose/passive. I don't mind slightly loose play, but for christ's sake get aggressive. Otherwise, please sit at my table so I can bleed you dry.


Cheers


AB

[One Outer]

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't say what limit, but maybe okay PF - in games where the SB is 1/3rd the BB, I often fold this pf. It's crap - not even on my starting hands chart.

Flop: Woowiee. Bottom pair, no kicker. How proud you must be. With backdoor baby flush gives you about 5.5 outs. That's barely enough to call (if even), but why not, you called PF with crap, call here too for a crapola fest!

Turn: Either bet out or check raise (then bet out river). WTF. No one has [censored]. You are best here nearly always. You're playing like a passive old lady. What makes you think MP has 2 pair?? WTF???

RIver: Retarded. After the weakness shown on the turn, you should be betting out here, unless you really think you can check raise.



General: The play here is weak/loose/passive. I don't mind slightly loose play, but for christ's sake get aggressive. Otherwise, please sit at my table so I can bleed you dry.


Cheers


AB

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really uncalled for. There's about, by my count, two sentences of actual poker-like content here, all of which has already been said multiple times by other posters.

Being mean and disrespectful is counterproductive to what we're trying to accomplish in the strat forums.

[fartman77]

i don't like a flop peel here b/c of the discounted 5 spade, drawy board and the good chance that 2 pair may not be good when you hit. BUT since it's low limit you can arguably play to maintain a loose image so that when u hit, showing down these types of hands to tilt ppl = +ev.

and of course as you already know, raise turn bet river etc

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if we can't raise the turn when we hit our hand, it's conceivable that we shouldn't be there in the first place. in this hand we can raise the turn, we just don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rather, If we *don't* raise the turn when we hit our hand, it's conceivable that we shouldn't be there in the first place. In this hand we *should* raise the turn, we just didn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, what i meant was if we don't feel as if we are good often enough to pop the turn maybe we shouldn't be there. i agree with the second part(that we *should* raise the turn).

[Tugg]

Maybe this is a leak in my game, but I would also fold this flop.Any spade or any card higher than an 8 puts a flush or srt8 on the board and you may already be behind to 2 pair, or set(not likely, but possible).I like the call pf, but I'm looking for 2 pair trips, or str8, flush draws to continue.With this many players in the hand I think you'll make your hand and still lose very often.Even with the harmless river 4, someone will turn over Ts4s.
As played, what everybody else says.

[Scarmiglio]

Hey AB - Thanks for the helpful words. I'm such a terrible player that I'm sure you would bleed me dry in no time.

Anyways. Preflop is an easy call in 4/8. I don't think this is debateable. I think the flop is an easy call too. We have a pair and a bd baby fd giving us sufficient outs to peel - especially getting 11:1. The issue with the hand is that I got stupid passive when I made my hand. I'm rarely passive in this spot, and hated the hand - hence the "Ugly" in my initial post. I took close to a month off from playing and thought I'd post some hands I played poorly during my first 2 sessions back to get some opinions and get my brain back in the game. There's no need to be condescending.