JJ -- fold to a small 4 bet?

holland3r · #1 05-23-2007, 08:47 PM

Opponent said my PF play was bad after this hand, is he right? I've logged a good number of hands with him but he's mostly played a decent shortstack game before this, I can only assume he's playing ABC tag.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($25.80)
Button ($43.05)
Hero ($70.35)
BB ($50)
UTG ($48.95)
MP ($76.05)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $2, CO calls $2, Button calls $2, Hero raises to $11, 1 fold, MP raises to $20, CO folds, Button folds, Hero calls $9.

Flop: ($44.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $56.05 (All-In), Hero calls $50.35 (All-In).

Turn: ($150.90) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($150.90) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $150.90

His 4 bet is too small to fold to PF, amirite?

Edit: Forgot to include results, he had AA.

Gullanian · #2 05-23-2007, 08:52 PM

Theres like $37 in the pot and it's $9 to call, so the call was fine as long as you can fold to any major post flop aggression. The check call allin was great.

jmgambler · #3 05-23-2007, 08:57 PM

Yep you cannot fold for an additional $9, Set over set You are supposed to lose your shirt, nice hand unlucky

Gullanian · #4 05-23-2007, 09:00 PM

Make notes that that particular player min raises with strong hands, minraising with a large pot is very suspicious.

holland3r · #5 05-23-2007, 09:00 PM

Also there's the fact that we're both deep with like $50 behind, so the more I think about it the more obvious the call becomes.

What's that rule, don't call hoping to make a set unless you stand to win 5x the amount you have to call? If I got that right it was an easy call.

C4LL4W4Y · #6 05-23-2007, 09:04 PM

Yeah with your stacks this looks fine, mostly because his pf 4b makes it obvious he's going to stack off. Nh.

holland3r · #7 05-24-2007, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah with your stacks this looks fine, mostly because his pf 4b makes it obvious he's going to stack off. Nh.

[/ QUOTE ]

K, let's say we only had $30 behind after his 4 bet, should I still call?

derosnec · #8 05-24-2007, 02:16 PM

regarding the original post:

you're calling 9 to win 35.5+50.35= 85.85.

You hit your set 12% of the time, but 18% of the time you do hit a set, you lose.

Of the times you hit your set, you sometimes won't get paid off (he has KK and flop is Axx; he has AA and flop is KQJ).

So, let's say you get paid off when you hit your set 75% of the time and you win the hand:

.75 x .12(.82) x 85.85 = +6.34

Now, 25% of the time he folds to a postflop bet:

.25 x .12 x 35.5 = +1.06

Total +EV = 7.4

75% of the time he gets all in when u hit a set, you lose 18% of the time:

.75 x .12(.18) x -50.35 = -.82

Now for the other 88% of the time when you don't hit a set (assume you don't stack off with an overpair or chase draws, for simplicity):

.88 x -$9 = -7.92

Total EV of calling: 6.34 + 1.06 - .82 – 7.92 = -1.18 (therefore you lose money on the call)

this link has good info:

setodds in a rr pot