Heisenb3rg's guide to exploiting LAG's HU

[Heisenb3rg]

Introduction :

I’ve been starting to become more apprehensive about posting thoughts on things like this because more and more of you are playing in my games, and reading my posts, then using it against me. I get comments from unknowns frequently on stars about my association with 2+2 and I hate it.

I’m not sure you guys remember my blind defence guide, but I decided to discontinue it because I realized it gave away too much about how I think. I have it totally written out, so when I move up to the nosebleed stakes or if I’m forced to switch to NL to maintain a healthy profit, I’ll release it.

So how can I write a strategy guide if I’m concerned about revealing my thought process to the poker masses? Well why not a guide on countering players who don’t read the forums!

There are two types of players who don’t read these forums. Poor LAG’s and loose passives.

First I’ll start with my guide to countering passives HU:

1) Ace high UI in position , bet , bet , check.
2) Middle pair or higher, bet, bet, bet
3) They probably aren’t semi bluffing on the turn. Adjust accordingly.

There. Done. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
So now you can make a profit in poker up to 2/4...

Once you move up in stakes, a different breed of fish starts to arise, one that if you apply your weak tight micro limit style will chew through your money faster than a fat guy through an ice cream fudge cake.

Now you actually have to THINK to exploit these guys. You have to be able to hand read. You have to be able to asses the strength of your hand relative to the board. You have to use psychology. You have to notice style differences between each one. You have to play poker.


Profiling the LAG

Unfortunately there is no cookie cutter strategy to countering LAG’s.
Why? Because they are all very different.
Some players have LAG tendencies in some area of their play, while are actually fairly different in other areas of their play.
I have seen 53/20 players who play like a 53/1 player post flop. Or 17/10 players who play like the average 100/40 post flop.
You have to be able to recognize these differences in order to exploit them. This means you have to pay attention!
Every time you are in a hand with a LAG (or if you aren’t playing too many tables, out of a hand) aggressively watch their tendencies. They will be in so often so it shouldn’t be too hard.
The most important traits to watch for, which should have a frequent effect on your decision process:

1)
How they peel flops. Specifically the call continuation bet statistic in ACE HUD.
30-50% is common and means they probably have a “reason” for peeling the flop. 75%+ means they peel almost any two cards.

2)
How often they bet air/draws when checked to OOP. To asses this, wait till you have a hand you want to showdown, but are afraid of getting raised because your hand is not very strong. After taking the initiative on the flop, c/c turn and c/c river, and see what they have. Do this a few times and make a note if they are checking behind or bluffing.

3)
River bluffing frequency when you check behind on the turn. The “turn value check” can be very profitable against certain LAG’s , but in my opinion is often incorrect against others. Simple, check ace high behind on certain turns and call the bets. See what he shows down, or if he doesn’t bet.

4)
Their 3-barreling frequency. If you are OOP in defending your big blind against a LAG and have a weak pair or ace high on a not too scary board, c/c, c/c ,c/c and see what he does.

5)
When they bluff raise, are they frequently bluff raising with air or just draws? This is essential to know what boards to call down on.. Or if you should “give up” on certain scare cards.

6)
Are they checking behind marginal hands on the river, or do they “bluff” them. Most specifically ace high. If they “bluff them” river check/calling goes up in value substantially.

It is pretty hard to determine these traits from statistics. However, they are traits that are both easy to watch for , and frequently have an effect on your decisions.

Statistics are also very important. Having an idea of their pre-flop range is pretty important for choosing when to fold and when to call your marginal hands. Example if you have 88 re-raised by a 70/25 and the flop comes AK4, you should almost certainly fold to a flop bet. If you are now re-raised by a 80/50. You should probably call down.

This is because against the ultra aggressive players post flop, your thought process should often be, what your equity is against his pre-flop range. You expect them to be betting most of their range the whole way, so the decision whether to continue, is just how well your hand does against his entire pre-flop range and your expressed pot odds.

For example, against a very agro postflop 40/25 player who cold calls your raise pre-flop and then raises a low coordinated flop, like 456 two suited you should probably call them down with any ace high hand. This is because their range is likely heavily composed of high cards that will try to make a play on this board.

However, now put a 75/30 player in this position and you should almost certainly fold the turn. Your hand doesn’t do well at all against a random hand.

Knowing the weighting of their pre-flop range is extremely important. A cold call instead of a 3-bet can reveal a lot about a very LAGy’s player hand type.

Psychology

I think one of the most under-used concepts in poker is one that was first introduced to me by David Sklansky’s theory of poker. I’m currently lending it out to a friend now so I can’t quote it, but the gist of the idea was to play in a way that induces your opponent to exaggerate their flawed tendencies any time you can. In the case of LAG’s , they are too loose, and too aggressive. So what does this mean?
Induce them to be looser and even more aggressive.

You may not want to berate them or do it verbally, because it’s bad etiquette and it may drive other fish away from the game.

I think one of the most important things to do is to throw them a bone every now and again. If you are facing a very close king high/queen high decision , just let the hand go. Let them feel like they bluffed you out. This possibly very slightly –EV play should more than come back to you on a future hand when they hopelessly put in an extra raise against your monster, or 3-barrel bluff into you’re obviously showdown bound hand.
LAG’s can resemble very much like an aggressive animal, if you give them a taste of your blood, they will come back for the kill.
Inspired by this “throw them a bone” concept, I don’t like to remove too many marginal drawing hands from my open raising distribution because of LAG’s behind me. If they 3-bet me and I have J9s and I lay the hand down on the turn UI on a low board, for all they know I layed down AJo...This induces them to fire too many barrels when I do have an ace high hand I’m planning to showdown.
Most LAG’s play illogically but most aren’t completely stupid. If you call them down with Q high , many will adjust and try to bluff you less.

Another important concept is to give them tons of action with your good draws on the flop and possibly very strong draws on the turn. First of all, they may be doing this with air, so you could be taking the pot down with a cap that you wouldn’t expect. But most importantly it’s for psychological reasons. If they know you’re coming back at them with a draw, they may try to put in that extra raise to bluff you out at the completely wrong time. Remember these players can’t hand read like we can. They may “put you on a draw” when you clearly have trips and give you wayyy too much action when you’re equity is enormous.
Now, a concept which I’m less confident about, but I think works is to fire their competitive juices.

I like to show them my bluffs early to show them that I can bluff against them, or to incite retribution. Let them build a vendetta against you. You want them to hate you. When LAG’s hate you , they’re nature is to become more aggressive. I think this can be dangerous though, some LAG’s may actually be good players just having fun. If you get these players competitive, their outlet may to be play better poker instead of be more aggressive. This you obviously do not want. So use this idea with caution. Plus please do not be-rate them. It is very tempting , and I certainly do it at times, but It’s to not do it for good of the game and the other players at the table, the passive fish types I’m sure do not like that type of chat and may be driven away from the game even if it doesn’t directly involve them.

Pre-flop play:

Don’t adjust too much, unless they are maniacs..

1)
Remove the worst Ax type hands from your range, especially in later positions. If you're 3-bet , you normally can’t afford to call down on most boards UI,and still have to play passively when you flop an ace. If they are manics, this isn’t true anymore, because you are effectively allowing them to isolate you with a showdownable type hand, plus their range now has so many weak hands that you can afford to showdown a weak ace.
If there are two maniacs on the table however, now you need to tighten them up drastically. This is compensated however for when you flop a strong hand and get payed off heavy.

2)
Remove the worst drawing type hands from your range, especially in earlier positions. EG Don’t ever bother raising T9s UTG if the table is laggy.

3)
If they play back at your aggression post-flop despite your pre-flop strength, cap very liberally with good Ax hands and medium/high pairs. Especially if they are so aggressive you expect them to give you action when you flop a pair of aces.

4)
If they are of the “3 barrel” camp, but will “respect the ace” then rarely cap Ax hands pre-flop HU. Let them barrel you with your ace high.

5)
Dont bother 3-betting or capping them “for deception” with good drawing hands.

6)
3-bet isolate them a lot looser than you normally would if you are on the button or SB. This is because you don’t have to worry about players behind you as much and a lot more of your hands will likely do well against their range. This can also apply to QJs/JTs type hands if their range is very wide, you expect to get a lot of action when you flop a pair, and have some fold equity. (despite their opposite nature, they are not mutually exclusive possibilities.. think about it).

7)
If the BB is also very loose, it becomes to correct to smooth call a lot of hands in the SB instead of 3-betting. The hands to do this with are medium strength drawing hands that do well the more opponents you have, but do not have great showdown value UI against 2 opponents. IE J8s vs a 100% button opener, 89s, Axs

Post-Flop

Obviously post flop can become extremely complicated, but I can make some generalizations.

1)
Call down way lighter than you normally would.

2)
Try to avoid lines that jam up the pot that will leave you in tough decisions whether to showdown or not.

3)
Playing passively with your medium strength hands can often net more money than being aggressive. The 3-barrel , “bet when checked to”, and “bets very weak showdownable hands on river” traits are crucial for deciding when to play passive or not. If you are getting payed off by all his lower pairs, his ace high AND his air, It is the equivalent of you value betting all your hands and getting called down by 7 high+. You also don’t have to worry about paying off their monsters.

4)
When the board is very coordinated and connected, ace high is often no good, no matter how loose or aggressive they are.

5)
If your opponent is of the type to only semi-bluff (but will do it with all types of draws, all the time) your goal on boards like T94 with a two flush is often to “call down, with ace high, but fold if bad cards come up”. EG if the turn and river come 8 and Q. And you have AK? Fold. If the turn and river are T, and 3. Call down. Figuring out what scare cards to fold on comes with experience. They are all marginal and fairly complex.

6)
On the turn, often you should not check to avoid a bluff raise against very bluff happy opponents. You should bet to induce a bluff raise. This is especially true against players who would check behind sometimes when you check.
EG if it’s a blind battle, you raise A2 in the SB and get called by a LAG big blind. Flop comes 566, you bet and get called turn comes 5. Often people’s instinct here is to check to induce a bluff. I think this is a big mistake against very aggressive players. By far the best play is to bet and call down. This is so obviously a scare card board, that anyone who is actively looking to bluff will take it. Honestly, against many players if I could re-raise these board and get capped as frequently as I got raised from the first bet, I would.
In order to judge this, you should decide how well your hand does against a random hand, how many “air” type hands your opponents range can consist of on this street and how aggressive they are. For example if they peel any two cards on the flop and are very aggressive, you should almost certainly two barrel and call a raise from most paired boards in position with ace high.

7)
With your TPTK + hands you should give more action than you normally give. Just how much action is very specific to the player and the board. Too hard to generalize. You can go way overboard, or you can be missing out on tons of value depending on the opponent.

8)
Almost always fast play your very strong hands (two pair+)

9)
Let them bluff into you and maintain the lead if you have a strong enough hand to raise, but not one you want tons of action with (IE TPGK with a king). Either raising on the river or the turn can depend on the player. If they will 3-barrel bluff frequently and showdown light, waiting to the river in position is often correct. Waiting to the turn is probably best if the pair is lower than a king, because of scare cards, as well as the increased value in folding overcards on the turn. If they are only stabbing at flops then c/f turn, raise the flop.

10)
The biggest mistake I see people make against LAG’s is the following: Raising the flop after they are donked when they have overcards HU trying to “take a free card”. Raising to get a cheap showdown with ace high. Or raising the flop on WA/WB boards without a very good hand. This is a huge mistake. Getting 3-bet is horrible with your weak hands, but the biggest downfall no matter what you have is it induces them to bluff less. Also, if you are doing it for free cards and they are observant they will also realize that you are playing your good hands differently then your bluffs and 3-bet you.

EG you raise on the button with QJ or AJ and the flop comes T74 and the BB LAG donks you. Raising the flop is horrible with both these hands. Induce bluffs with your AJ, and just give up with your QJ UI on the turn. If you want to rebluff, wait till the turn. If the turn gives you a good draw, raise it. EG if the turn comes a 9 and you have QJ. Raise. If the flop is A48 and you have KJs, you probably want to peel because he’ll unlikely do this with a pair of aces. If the turn gives you a flush draw, raise. Do you see how you’ve balanced your style?

11)
You should be very rarely raising the turn for free showdowns.

12)
Check/calling the river with a mid/top pair when a scare card comes up is often bad against most players, but against many LAG’s becomes the correct play, depending on the board.

13)
Semi bluffing the turn is still profitable against many LAG’s, even if they are somewhat showdown bound. This is because their range is often huge, so they have so many hands they can’t showdown compared to ones they can. Your goal isn’t to fold a pair or maybe even ace high, it’s to fold his hands that totally missed. The biggest reason you’d want to avoid any types of turn semi-bluffs is if they are so aggressive, that they will 3-bet bluff you very frequently. This is about the worst thing that could happen. Against extremely showdown bound players you also have to be cautious (king high call downs on scary boards and the like).


I’m sure there’s tons more to talk about, but this is everything that came to my head.

[DCWildcat]

tl;dr

Just kidding. Simple, good, and not overly-theoretical advice is perfect for the semi (or less) experienced SH limit player. I approve.

[TheWunderkind]

great work!

btw going nut swith your draws and semibluffing frequently i bad vs certain lags

[sethypooh21]

[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr


[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing...(and also the "just kidding part"

This is awesome, sir. My one minor disagreement is with the "throw them a bone" strategy. While this might be good advice against a lag at 10/20, I don't think it is especailly applicable to the 1/2-3/6 LAG - at these levels the LAGS aren't 'thinking' enough to not run more bluffs, in fact they are undisciplined enough to try even harder.

The biggest thing that should be emphasized, up front and in bold is don't fear the LAGS. Yes, they will make the game swingier, but since your profit comes from your opponents' mistakes, and LAGS not only make numerous large errors themselves, but induce sizable errors by the other players who don't properly adjust, the presence of a live action player is essentially dumping money on the table, which you have a higher equity stake than any other player sitting (unless your table selections sucks.)

[yourface]

nice post heisen.

as a follow up to postflop tip #5 a great way to get a feel for what kinds of cards to release on is to run a bunch of pokerstove simulations and see how different turn cards affect your equity versus villain's range.

[Guruman]

this is some superior stuff dude.

[gehrig]

im guessing u say call a lot but ur supposed to raise a lot

[Rev. Good Will]

wow,

good post so far, time to mark this as a favorite and go to sleep.

[Guruman]

[ QUOTE ]

This is awesome, sir. My one minor disagreement is with the "throw them a bone" strategy. While this might be good advice against a lag at 10/20, I don't think it is especailly applicable to the 1/2-3/6 LAG - at these levels the LAGS aren't 'thinking' enough to not run more bluffs, in fact they are undisciplined enough to try even harder.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seth, I think Hesisenberg's advice translates even to smaller stakes. You're not levelling these people, you're just sheparding them. You can lead these players by the neck to wherever you want them to go. Its just a nice little coincidence that it also works as a starting point against tougher lags.

[Heisenb3rg]

[ QUOTE ]
im guessing u say call a lot but ur supposed to raise a lot

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you have more often, with AK, Ace high unimproved or a pair of aces?

You should be raising more than ever sure, but you also should be calling much more than ever. What should you be doing less of then? FOLDING! :P

The guide is mostly geared towards when to call down , only because how much action to give a LAG is so player specific that it's pretty impossible to generalize.