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#121
10-08-2007, 03:54 PM
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Re: Watch Out For Ron Paul
[ QUOTE ]
C'mon guys, I know there has to be more to it than this? I always hear people griping about all these "freedoms" we've lost, and do you really mean to tell me when we get down to talking details we basically come up with this list: 1. The freedom to use illegal drugs. 2. The freedom to not be searched on public transportation, despite giving voluntary consent. There has GOT to be more than this.....please tell me this is not what all the fuss is about.... [/ QUOTE ] "the US is becoming a police state": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole 
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#122
10-08-2007, 04:02 PM
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Re: Watch Out For Ron Paul
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] That said: 1.) That I or anyone else may consent to a loss of freedom for the sake of convenience does not mean there isn't a loss of freedom. No, the subway thing isn't a big deal to me, it just has a very "police state" kind of feeling to me. That's why I mentioned it. [/ QUOTE ] The "freedom to ride the subway, unfettered from any reasonable random search." I have to admit, this is the first time I've heard that asserted. Since you said yourself it wasn't a big deal, we won't spend much time on it. [/ QUOTE ] Can I introduce you to this slope? It is getting slippery. Subway. Car. Walking down the street. In your home. Etc. Etc. [/ QUOTE ] Who owns the subway? Who owns your car?
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#123
10-08-2007, 04:18 PM
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Re: Watch Out For Ron Paul
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] That said: 1.) That I or anyone else may consent to a loss of freedom for the sake of convenience does not mean there isn't a loss of freedom. No, the subway thing isn't a big deal to me, it just has a very "police state" kind of feeling to me. That's why I mentioned it. [/ QUOTE ] The "freedom to ride the subway, unfettered from any reasonable random search." I have to admit, this is the first time I've heard that asserted. Since you said yourself it wasn't a big deal, we won't spend much time on it. [/ QUOTE ] Can I introduce you to this slope? It is getting slippery. Subway. Car. Walking down the street. In your home. Etc. Etc. [/ QUOTE ] Who owns the subway? Who owns your car? [/ QUOTE ] Who owns the roads you drive your car on? Or the sidewalk you are walking down?
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#124
10-08-2007, 04:19 PM
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Re: Watch Out For Ron Paul
[ QUOTE ]
C'mon guys, I know there has to be more to it than this? I always hear people griping about all these "freedoms" we've lost, and do you really mean to tell me when we get down to talking details we basically come up with this list: 1. The freedom to use illegal drugs. 2. The freedom to not be searched on public transportation, despite giving voluntary consent. There has GOT to be more than this.....please tell me this is not what all the fuss is about.... [/ QUOTE ] Love the reference. Well played.
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#125
10-08-2007, 04:22 PM
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Re: Watch Out For Ron Paul
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Can I introduce you to this slope? It is getting slippery. [/ QUOTE ] Sure, maybe next we can meet the 4th amendment? It hasn't changed. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I guess I am missing something. Last I checked the 4th amendment protected agains unreasonable searches. I think the point was we consent to searches of convenience now to avoid the hassle, reasonable or not.
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#126
10-08-2007, 04:28 PM
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Re: Watch Out For Ron Paul
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] C'mon guys, I know there has to be more to it than this? I always hear people griping about all these "freedoms" we've lost, and do you really mean to tell me when we get down to talking details we basically come up with this list: 1. The freedom to use illegal drugs. 2. The freedom to not be searched on public transportation, despite giving voluntary consent. There has GOT to be more than this.....please tell me this is not what all the fuss is about.... [/ QUOTE ] "the US is becoming a police state": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole [/ QUOTE ] That's what I originally thought too, when I made this post... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] But I was assured that wasn't the case, as "a bunch" of our freedoms have "really been taken away." And I'll be damned....no one has been able to list them.
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#127
10-08-2007, 04:33 PM
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Re: Watch Out For Ron Paul
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I am missing something. Last I checked the 4th amendment protected agains unreasonable searches. I think the point was we consent to searches of convenience now to avoid the hassle, reasonable or not. [/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't think imposing random searches on a mass transit system that all users voluntarily consent to in advance as a condition of using that system constitutes an "unreasonable search". Defeating the slippery slope argument, however, I think most everyone would agree that random searches of people's homes would most definately constitute "unreasonable search", and caselaw would support that precedent.
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#128
10-08-2007, 04:45 PM
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Re: Watch Out For Ron Paul
[ QUOTE ]
Exactly, the country has been fairly safe from foreign threat under the recent status quo....because we're taking the fight to them...hoo-rah! ... The "status quo" on foreign policy changed quite a bit post-9/11, and the country has been fairly safe from foreign attack since. [/ QUOTE ] If there was another terrorist attack on US soil in the next year, would your opinion change? Would you then think that our post 9/11 policy wasn't working and we needed to go in the other direction? Or are you going to argue for more suspension of liberty and more violent foreign intervention no matter what?
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