Folding a Pair and Low Draw on 5th

[getfunky]

Seat 3 is a selectively LAG, thinking player who generally gives me a lot of respect, and has limped with powerful lows from up front pretty often.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($3/$6), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.67 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 2: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 4: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 7: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (4.00 SB)

Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls

5th Street - (3.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls

6th Street - (5.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls

River - (7.50 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___checks
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___checks

Total pot: (7.50 BB)

Results (in white):<font color="white">

Total pot $45 | Rake $2

Seat 3: [3c 4s 3h 4c 6h Qs Jc] (HI: two pair, Fours and Threes)

Seat 6: [5c Ts Td 8c 4h Ah 6c] (HI: a pair of Tens; LO: 8,6,5,4,A)

</font>

[cgrohman]

Seat 6 is horrible. Your fold on 5th is horrible. I might have raised 4th.

[Beavis68]

they way he played 4th why is the fold on 5th "horrible"?

he has the worst low draw showing and probably the worst pair and the pot is still pretty small.

[cgrohman]

He has a pair, an ace, and a 7 high low draw. I guess its not that horrible is he knows fo sho that seat 2 has a made low but that is far from certain.

[Alchemist]

How is folding 5th horrible? Seat 3 could be crushing Hero for low and doesn't care about the 3 diamonds he's showing or the big pair behind him. Hero's not going to like life if Seat 3 has a 5 in the hole. I'd peel 5th if I had a flush draw but this raggedy hand needs a ton of help to win either low or high as it stands.

If Seat 6 is going to complete with split Tens after the BI and two babies limp, then he might start jamming one he makes two pair on the expensive streets. I'm letting go of this dog now.

[Andy B]

You've got a scary board and seat 1 gives you a lot of respect, yet he bets into you. The pot's small, and the guy who raised with a Ten in the door might have a hand too. In any case, you don't have the best high hand. You should be behind for low, and you might be way behind. The pot is small. Folding can't be far wrong.

[getfunky]

My thinking was in line with Alchemist and Andy - if my board was weaker looking, I would have been more inclined to continue with the hand.

I usually play this hand more agressively on 3rd st. On 4th st., I considered raising but was happy to keep the pot small and ensure multiway action. Based on my passive play, the pot was small enough to want to get away from it.. there were quite a few dead low cards and I'd be drawing to an uncertain fate: making aces up or a 7-low could be bad.

I guess the key to the hand was being outplayed because I showed weakness on the earlier streets; the fact that this player would have played a six high str8 identically allowed him to make a nice move on me.

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess the key to the hand was being outplayed because I showed weakness on the earlier streets; the fact that this player would have played a six high str8 identically allowed him to make a nice move on me.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may very well be true, but I'm also inclined to think that Seat 3 found himself in a tight spot and couldn't really play it any differently. He's probably not crazy about the completion after limping (34)3. I kind of lump SPSK with (3J)5 suited. A hand I want to see 4th cheaply with but can get away from easily if I miss.

He caught good on 4th but needs to protect his hand by betting. I think calling is fine here although I don't like my hand a great deal particularly with the unpredictable Ten behind me. On 5th, the 6 gives him a very scary board and he's forced to bet here in hopes of taking it down right away. He knows it'll be tough for you to call showing the 7 and he can't be too worried about diamonds since four of them were dead on 3rd. He's much more concerned about getting rid of the Ten right now.

On 6th, he gives the T one more chance to fold even though he doesn't get any help with the Q. I imagine neither player liked his hand that much at showdown.

5th Street, which killed another 3 AND 4, clearly was the critical street for him. Had he faced resistance here by either player I think he may have let his hand go on 6th (of course there's no way for either of his opponents to know that). I still think Hero played correctly though. More often than not, you'll be way behind Seat 3.

I really don't understand the idea of raising 4th here, especially considering what we know of Seat 3. Raising 72 after 34 bets into two players (one which completed 3rd) doesn't make sense to me. Not to mention there was a load of dead diamonds on 3rd. Seems to me Hero wants to play this hand cautiously and keep the pot small in order to make it easier to get away from since things could get very dicey depending on how the cards come.

[getfunky]

nice analysis alchemist, and I agree with you lumping spsk with flush draws with two babies - these hands are problematic, particularly against aggressive opponents. I'm not crazy about any hand other than aa(small) or a rut that can't make a low draw on 4th, and in a loose game I'll take 456 offsuit over aa(small) any day.