NL Bots on Full Tilt

[kyleb]

nation,

Good to see you are living up to your promise to not post in the thread anymore.

[Eric Stoner]

Okay, I've read the entire thing...soap operas are fun. I go away for a couple of weeks and when I don't read this place regularly, BAM something happens.

I don't have a good stats background; what I know of statistics (and my cursory college class) comes from the fine people that populate this place.

What is clearly evident that a few players found loopholes within the T & C of FTP and they have exploited it. Whether they are playing bots, a simple system, or a combination of both - we'll never truly know.

What we do know is that FTP checked into this matter and they couldn't offer conclusive evidence one way or the other and they are clearly ignoring those that have the analysis and did the homework that FTP did not (or is still doing).

What I have learned is that I can get a few of my friends, set up some scripts, get part of my rake refunded to me in such a volume that I can make a living and not care about my profits from actually playing the game !

The best thing is that all of this seems to be legal (and quite possibly too good to be true).

If I were an adventurous twenty something (which I'm clearly not), I would figure out pretty quickly how to replicate the shop and start something on FTP. Reading this thread at times I have slapped my forehead wondering, why didn't I try that?

Because I really wanted to learn how to play this silly little game. Had I known (just about script work and bad poker but great affliate deals) at the right time in my life, I would have a major conflict of interest. However, my integrity would have won because I wouldn't truly be able to sleep at night.

Trust me - I know that bluffing, and deception are keys to playing well and winning, but what has happened here does not fall into any of those categories.

The whole busines of sweat shops, bots, and so on really puts online poker into the sleazy category - right along with getting paid to take surveys, filling out forms online for cash, and several ponzi/MLM/Amway schemes.

It's a shame really - many want to play because it's fun when you win.

Play on...

[Better Than U]

[ QUOTE ]
uhm no. if people were punished just because of "suspicious" activity, our legal system would be a joke.

[/ QUOTE ] good thing it's not our legal system at work here. now go away.

[AnnaBella]

In case you are not familiar--our legal system convicts people daily for circumstantial evidence and "odd" behavior, alone--forget the smoking gun!!

As "pristine" as our legal system is to you, if this forum were a panel of jurors, I feel it safe to say--your friends would be found "guilty" as charged.

The way the 3 of you have behaved and stumbled all over your story, has given people enough reasonable doubt--not to trust a word you say.

You 3 are perfect examples of why defense attorneys do not put defendents on that witness stand, most of the time.

You seem to forget that you are up against "professional" bluffers in the game of poker which easily translates in to the game of life--they/we are BS(lie)detectors.

There is an old saying....if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck--it's a duck PERIOD!

I personally feel right now, this has leaked all over the online poker communities. You are going to find players out there testing the waters themselves, for personal proof(which would be reason why we are not seeing a decline in traffic on FTP).

I also suspect that an intelligent player that comes to the realization that these are indeed bots or remotely resemble behavior of bots--their payday is going to send them to the unemployment line. Maybe I am too optomistic about this but one can only hope.

Stop donating to their cause, is all I can say!!

~A

[maurile]

[ QUOTE ]
FT should definitely be made aware of this and check it out.

[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously. Somebody should email their fraud department or something.

[bxb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone with half a brain thinks their activity is still highly suspicious and thinks they should be given the money but their accounts closed.

[/ QUOTE ]

uhm no. if people were punished just because of "suspicious" activity, our legal system would be a joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is merely stating what people with only half a brain think about the situation. Obviously that course of action would be ridiculous.

[theG0at]

I think these dudes are cheating in some shape or form. Maybe bots? Maybe team play? Either way, its sketchy. Its not just full tilt. I see this in many sites with players multi-tabling 10 tables and making the same exact bets, raises, etc. I've always felt these players are cheats in some way because three of my friends and I have been consistant winning players in the 1/2-5/10 NL and 3/6-5/10 Limit tables, both online and live games, and we've always felt it was impossible or very rare atleast that someone can play 10 tables for 15 hours straight (which these players aways seem to do), because it was hard for us to concentrate and make the SAME EXACT PLAYS for 12 hours straight on 1 table.

The most tables any of us played for a long duration is 2-3 tables and after 5-6 hours we all agree that it gets extremly tiring (this is comming from a dude that ounce did a 36 hour session in a live game).

I really hope you guys aren't using bots for the sake of the integrity of online poker, but I am sure you guys are cheating in some shape or form. Just hope that they pass a new law for online poker so there is enough fish for all of us, but in the mean time, you guys can go to hell.

[rosso87]

wow i just read the whole freaking thread.

what an epic.

i know my post probally wont get even a look at since im "new" i signed up for here ages ago but can't even remember my username, visited frequently but never posted as the place seems mainly full of trolls.

this thread prooves that, full of mostly meaningless BS.

im truly amazed with the amount of people on this site, and the amount of posts that anyone with half a brain and any idea of how to use the internet can be saying these guys aren't bots.

it is so obvious they are bots.

just a basic google is enough to make it plain as day.

the botting scene is huge, people are so ignorant its not funny.

there are so many many more that most people just either are to ignorant to take notice of or couldn't be bothered to look into.

im not going to post links to most of those as im sure most of the people would jump fence fairly quickly seeing how easy and profitiable it is in terms of there "ethics"

just a quick browse thru cheats' forums shows how profitable is is just SELLING bots, and some bots are truly primitive.

anyway like i said i doubt my post will get much credit but its just amazing how blind people are to this. its been going on for a long time and it will continue, most pokersites KNOW it is going on and LET it go on.

[Kevroc]

I've been reading this thread daily and finally caught up...

I dont think it has been mentioned yet but, heres my thoughts...

I use SnoopFree and whenever a program tries to read my screen or hook my keyboard, I get a pop-up alert that asks me to allow/deny the program trying to do the said action(s).

When I open FTP, it says that it is trying to read my screen and I allow it.

If FTP is reading your screen, shouldn't they be able to take screenshots and/or see any programs running i.e. BOTS or other player-assist software?

That would be a pretty easy way of flushing the bots, no?

I personally think that only one account per I.P. should be allowed.

I dont even let my friends log in from my house when they visit because I sometimes play against them and don't want my account frozen. I'd rather just let them log in as me and settle up the difference in cash.

I also do not think these guys are cheating per se but, same limits same room.. more than one player to a hand... it kinda breaks the "rules" too.

Tough call but, I'd be interested in feedback on my "screen reading" idea.

[notreallymyname]

Probing the computer in any way (including screen reading) is no help if you run your poker client in a VM (which there are plenty of legitimate reasons to do, such as not using windows as your primary operating system) and the bot outside.

This thread is making writing a bot myself unpleasantly attractive. The reasons I have not done so until now are (in an arbitrary order):

1) Automated play is against the T&C everywhere and they should actually be attempting to enforce it. This now seems like a minor concern after FTP brushed off such an OBVIOUS botter, who made so many mistakes it's positively comic. Avoiding looking like a computer program that happens to play poker (when compared to any multitabler) isn't difficult, certainly not when put against...
2) Writing a winning NL bot is not easy. We are clearly not looking at a (team of) genius(es) here, if he/they can do it, so can I.
3) It's unethical. This is my only remaining hope to stay straight as I see it.