Better (greater edge) on-line than in B&M???

Optisizer · #1 05-29-2007, 11:15 AM

A high-stakes NL holdem player I know of claims to be better online than playing live.
Given that live play is generally considered softer by most players, attracting more fishes etc., how can it be that a player can make more per hands played (or thinks he does) online than in a B&M?

Generally speaking what would your style of (winning) play have to be for that to happen? Would these style preferences differ between levels?

What have you likely not figured out about your play if you're better (making more money per hand) online than B&M (and vice versa for that matter)?

I know I am better B&M than online, so if I can understand this player, maybe it will help me become yet a tad better online...

(This player does have a style of play that can be defined quite easily on the L-T, P-A scales, but I won't include it here, so as not to put any preconseived notions in your head if you feel for pondering it. Besides, knowing the style still doesn't bring me any closer to a plausible explanation including valid reasons.)

PantsOnFire · #2 05-29-2007, 02:11 PM

My guess is that a TAG will have more success at a B&M while a LAG will have more success online.

Maybe somebody can explain why I said that.

cpk · #3 05-29-2007, 04:20 PM

My guess is that the difference in player quality at higher stakes is lower, and your friend either matches up better against the specific opponents he faces online, or he has a bad poker face and leaks tells.

sh58 · #4 05-29-2007, 08:18 PM

maybe he likes the convenience of online play, he feels more comfortable there where people aren't staring at him.

no travel costs

lower rake

no tip

less security issues

obv profit per hand is unimportant as he can play about 10x more hands per hour online if he multitables!

he won't spend all his profits on high class hookers (or he'll have to travel to them, which requires more effort)

eisanm · #5 05-30-2007, 06:40 AM

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he won't spend all his profits on high class hookers (or he'll have to travel to them, which requires more effort)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is obv what he's all about.

Apart from that, I think lots of online players have more edge online than BM. Maybe it's a bad example but myself I've spent more than 100 times the playing time online, compared to live play. I have no sense of live tells, but I am getting some good reads on my opponent online.

Also I guess this applies to many young players who have been able to play online but not much in the real casinos.

Also in live play there's no PA hud to look at so math players probably play better online since live they will lack information.

SilentNoise · #6 05-30-2007, 08:03 AM

i believe the average online player is better than the average b&m player. so when an online player sites in a live game, he obviously has a bigger edge because he is playing against weaker players. the edge a good player has at a table full of other good players is less than the edge a good player has against bad players.

this isn't taking account hourly rate though, where tougher games can still mean better hourly.

JavaNut · #7 05-30-2007, 09:59 AM

The style of the opponents can make a difference, so unless that you are good at changing your own style to fit a new type of opponents, your rate will go down. If your own style includes a lot of moves that are based on opponents being able to be fooled and the B&M opponents are too unaware of these moves for them to work, you are only fooling yourself. Often moves become second nature to oneself and are hard to get rid of when changing environment.

Optisizer · #8 05-30-2007, 01:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i believe the average online player is better than the average b&m player. so when an online player sites in a live game, he obviously has a bigger edge...

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See, that's what I would think too. Tougher online games where you have a relatively small edge against tough opponents, would translate to greater edge against weak B&M opponents.
But apparently those who have responded to this post think differently. So what is it a good on-line player might lose - relatively speaking - in terms of playing skills and edge when playing B&M, when most around here would agree that on-line players are generally better and the B&M games softer...

I am trying to wrap my head around this and in a way it doesn't make sense. But if I do get to see the light maybe my own game - both B&M and on-line - can benefit from it...

KipBond · #9 05-30-2007, 02:11 PM

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I am trying to wrap my head around this and in a way it doesn't make sense. But if I do get to see the light maybe my own game - both B&M and on-line - can benefit from it...

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One thought: Online players may get bored playing live and start playing hands they shouldn't. Multi-table online players, especially, get to play a lot more good hands per hour than they will in a live game.

Orlando Salazar · #10 05-30-2007, 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My guess is that a TAG will have more success at a B&M while a LAG will have more success online.

Maybe somebody can explain why I said that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the total opposite is true. Lagging ~35/20 it up (as much as you can in live full ring) will inflate pots and allow for skill to be applied in more situations vs weaker player = more money. Playing tight online is ok because you don't have to wait an hour to pick up a decent hand. Live, you've gotta get in there and play post flop. I also think hand reading is more important live. Reads can be less solid online because they average out to be +EV. However, live, good decisions don't average out as quickly.