Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > PL/NL Texas Hold'em > Small Stakes
FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-12-2006, 12:00 PM
Pokey Pokey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Using the whole Frist, doc?
Posts: 3,712
Default TOP: Bluffing in Hold\'em

On page 166 of The Theory Of Poker, Sklansky discusses how frequently a person should bluff:
[ QUOTE ]

What is the right bluffing frequency? It is a frequency that makes it impossible for your opponents to know whether to call or fold. Mathematically, optimal bluffing strategy is to bluff in such a way that the chances against your bluffing are identical to the pot odds your opponent is getting. Thus, if...an opponent is getting 6-to-1 from the pot, the chances against your bluffing should be 6-to-1. Then that opponent would break even on the last bet by calling every time and also by folding every time. If he called <a $20 bet into a $100 pot>, he would lose $20 six times and win $120 once; if he folded, he would win nothing and lose nothing. Regardless of what your opponent does, you average winning an extra $100 every seven hands. However, mathematically optimal bluffing strategy isn't necessarily the best strategy. It is much better if you are able to judge when to try a bluff and when not to in order to show a bigger overall profit.


[/ QUOTE ]
I have a few problems with this idea, especially with regards to SSNL:

1. To say that mathematically optimal bluffing shows a $100 profit in this situation is true only in comparison to checking through. If opponents will call a value bet, even occasionally, then the "extra $100" from optimal bluffing is much smaller.
2. Given our opponents' tendencies to call too frequently, a strategy that works equally well whether our opponent always folds or always calls is not going to be profit maximizing. We should set up a strategy that pays decently well if our opponent always folds, but extremely well if he always calls. Recognize the weakness of the enemy and exploit it.
3. This theory of mathematically optimal bluffing applies best in closed-river games (where every player's last card is dealt face-down). Texas Hold'em is an open-river game, and that changes the dynamic profoundly, because bluffs and value bets will not be equally likely to be called.

While points 1 and 2 are details that suggest minor alterations in our strategy, point 3 is a potentially fatal flaw in Hold'em bluffing. Example:

You hold A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and on the turn the board is K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. You decide you want to make a pot-sized value bet if any of the (nine remaining) hearts hits the board, and a pot-sized bluff on three other preselected cards. (This strategy randomizes your play in completely unpredictable ways; the deck is telling you when to bluff). This gives your opponent 3-to-1 odds on a 2-to-1 payout, so if he always folds you come out ahead, and if he always calls you come out ahead even more.

But what bluff cards can you pick that will be just as likely to be called (or folded) as any rivered heart? The obvious choices would be some non-heart straight cards.

If we bluff when a non-heart 6 hits, will our opponent give us credit for the straight as often as he'd give us credit for a flush when the heart hits? How about if we bluff the non-heart Js? Ts? 7s? When our opponent can see our river card, the odds of our bluff succeeding are NOT the same as the odds that our river value-bet gets called.

Never bluffing at SSNL can't be optimal unless our opponents NEVER fold. But given the open-river nature of Hold'em, how should we approach bluffing?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-12-2006, 12:55 PM
Isura Isura is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 13,926
Default Re: TOP: Bluffing in Hold\'em

Good post Pokey.

[ QUOTE ]
However, mathematically optimal bluffing strategy isn't necessarily the best strategy. It is much better if you are able to judge when to try a bluff and when not to in order to show a bigger overall profit.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the most relevant point wrt NL IMO. The game is so player and situation dependent, that it seems unlikely that an (general) optimal river bluffing strategy could exist.

[ QUOTE ]

Never bluffing at SSNL can't be optimal unless our opponents NEVER fold. But given the open-river nature of Hold'em, how should we approach bluffing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we have review poker fundamentals, and use a collection of factors in considering bluffs. I'm referring to primarily river bluffs, because bets on previous streets are usually atleast weak semibluffs.

1) Hand reading - This is the most important skill needed to become a good bluffer. If we can roughly categorize the hands villain could have on the river, and associate a weight to these groups, then bluffing is reduced to knowing what hands he call a certain sized bet, and doing the math to figure out an optimal bet size.

2) Knowing your player - Very related to point 1). There is no point knowing what he has unless you also know what he is capable of folding or calling with. Good players consider a wide range of factors such as hand ranges, and pot odds when considering a river call. But poor players are often guided by factors such as the bet size and ego. Some players will never pick off a big bluff with hands like top pair, because they "can't call so much" with just a pair, regardless of whether they think someone is bluffing. Conversely, the same players can't fold good hands like sets/two pair for huge bets when the action clearly indicates that they are beat.

3) Your image - Obviously aggressive players get bluffs called more oftan than tight player, but this doesn't necessarily imply that bluffing is more profitable for tight players. Good aggressive players can make hugely +EV bluffs in huge pots, and the times they get picked off in small or medium sized pots may not outweight the profits from the successful bluffs.

4) Past history - Most players are less likely to call your pot-sized bluff if you have recently bet a big hand the same way on the river. This is also related to the general concept of mixing up your play against the same opponent. I will rarely play the same hand the same way against someone if the previous hand occured recently. Another factor to consider is the past history of the villain against the rest of the table. You don't want to bluff the frustrated guy who has been making big laydowns lately. Conversely, someone who has just doubled up or won a big pot is less likely to make a big call on the river. A lot of SSNL players (.5/1-1/2 especially) will immediately tighten up after doubling up. Good players take note of these things and utilize this information to their advantage.

5) Metagame - This is a huge complicated topic, so I won't go into any detail. Basically with bluffing, the idea is that -EV plays (such as bluffing) can be made to induce +EV plays later. This is a tricky concept, and it is not as applicable at SSNL (especially online).
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.