Free card to induce an A-high call down

[Captain R]

Villain is a winning player, probably a 2+2er. A little overagressive at times with the worst hand, but overall plays fairly well.

Villain opens UTG, folded around to me in BB. I look down at K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and 3-bet. UTG thinks a little while like he's considering a 4-bet, but then decides to just call. I have a pretty tight, solid image, so I definitely have a good hand. He respects this and knows I'm not getting out of line.

Flop is Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet, UTG thinks for a second and then calls.

Turn is 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I check. I put UTG on either A-high or some kind of pair. AK might call the turn hoping to chop, but a smaller Ace will probably fold. Any other big cards will fold. A pair will almost always bet here and I will therefore check-raise.

So I'm basically giving UTG a free-roll to try to hit his 3-outer and also to induce an A-high or something like AJ with a J on the river to call down on the river. There's 4 BB's in the pot. I'm giving a freeroll on a 4 BB pot to try to win 1 more BB.

I check and UTG thinks for a second trying to figure out why I checked and then checks it back.

River is a blank, I bet, UTG calls with AK.

Is this maximizing KK (by inducing AK to call down unimproved) or just being maximally retarded (which I expect everyone to tell me)? UTG was probably at least 50% willing to call down lightly with A-high on the river (say AJ) based on my turn check.

[AragornX151]

Hmm. Its an interesting tact. The problem with it is you miss a bet from JJ-TT, which may call you down here thinking YOU have AK. The other problem is that a good opponent will often fold AQ or the like to a turn c/r here, so you only get one bet, but if you lead the turn and river, he'll normally call you down with AQ or plenty of other hands.
I also think you have to be willing to insta-muck to a turn 3-bet with this angle.

Overall, I think your thought process is creative, but it's only really optimal if your opponent has EXACTLY AK.

[HOWMANY]

If he plays well then you need to be prepared to call a river c/r immediately because your hand looks like a pair that does
not beat a Q.

I think betting the turn is better and hope he gets some sort of "read" on you and tries to do something wacky, especially given your description of him.

[MitchL]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is a winning player, probably a 2+2er. A little overagressive at times with the worst hand, but overall plays fairly well.

Villain opens UTG, folded around to me in BB. I look down at K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and 3-bet. UTG thinks a little while like he's considering a 4-bet, but then decides to just call. I have a pretty tight, solid image, so I definitely have a good hand. He respects this and knows I'm not getting out of line.

Flop is Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet, UTG thinks for a second and then calls.

Turn is 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I check. I put UTG on either A-high or some kind of pair. AK might call the turn hoping to chop, but a smaller Ace will probably fold. Any other big cards will fold. A pair will almost always bet here and I will therefore check-raise.

So I'm basically giving UTG a free-roll to try to hit his 3-outer and also to induce an A-high or something like AJ with a J on the river to call down on the river. There's 4 BB's in the pot. I'm giving a freeroll on a 4 BB pot to try to win 1 more BB.

I check and UTG thinks for a second trying to figure out why I checked and then checks it back.

River is a blank, I bet, UTG calls with AK.

Is this maximizing KK (by inducing AK to call down unimproved) or just being maximally retarded (which I expect everyone to tell me)? UTG was probably at least 50% willing to call down lightly with A-high on the river (say AJ) based on my turn check.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have to work this hard to get called down w/ AK then you are too predictable. Your bb 3-bet range should include TT and JJ as should his call down range. You are narrowing his range too much here and missing value as a result.

[vmacosta]

problem with this is that you showed so much strength preflop that this line smells like a c/r. So if he "falls for it" and bets, and you now c/r, he will probably muck everything worse than AQ.

SO you lose ~ 3/4 BB v. smaller pairs and gain ~ 2/3 BB the times he has A-hi, would have folded the turn, AND pays off your river bet. Dunno exactly what his range is here but against me this is slightly -ev.

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
If he plays well then you need to be prepared to call a river c/r immediately because your hand looks like a pair that does
not beat a Q.

I think betting the turn is better and hope he gets some sort of "read" on you and tries to do something wacky, especially given your description of him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops, didn't see you were BB. I just keep betting in that case because your checking here makes no sense and he will probably check like everything behind except a set of 9s.

[blindside]

this is a good flop to go after it cause you don't really mind a free card here... in the off chance that he could have something like JT or AQ though and then check those hands some of the time... i think you should really bet this..

[emerson]

A gamble that paid off this time. I hate the idea of giving any ace or pocket pair a free card here. You never know if it gained a bet because you never know whether he would have called the turn.

[emerson]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm. Its an interesting tact. The problem with it is you miss a bet from JJ-TT, which may call you down here thinking YOU have AK. The other problem is that a good opponent will often fold AQ or the like to a turn c/r here, so you only get one bet, but if you lead the turn and river, he'll normally call you down with AQ or plenty of other hands.
I also think you have to be willing to insta-muck to a turn 3-bet with this angle.

Overall, I think your thought process is creative, but it's only really optimal if your opponent has EXACTLY AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

And questionable even then. 3.5 BB in pot that you give away the 1/14 of the time he catches an Ace. So it immediately gives up about a quarter of a bet as soon as he goes to the river with a hand he might have folded on the turn. And if he would have called on the turn the gain is zero. If he would have called on the turn 25% of the time that's another quarter bet given up, already essentially a half bet investment you're making. He has to call the river bet with nothing more than half the time for this to gain anything. Close when compared to the no brainer bet on the turn.

[brettbrettr]

I think if I were in your spot I'd just call pre-flop. Either that or spray more in other places.