Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > Limit Texas Hold'em > Small Stakes Limit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-10-2006, 10:48 AM
Ghazban Ghazban is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Gibbering incoherently
Posts: 5,805
Default Live 15/30 top set hand

I play limit pretty close to never (normally 5/10 and 10/20 NL) but decided to try it out at the Bellagio over the weekend. In general, there were never more than 2 bets on any street and very rarely more than one on the turn or river. Most of the people in the game are old and crotchety calling stations so this is to be expected.

My opponent in this hand is a bit different; he looks to be in his twenties and posted in the CO for his first hand the hand before. He raised that hand, got 3 callers, then bet the flop 4-way and everyone folded. That's all the read I have.

The hand:

Someone limps, villain limps, I raise QQ on the button, blinds fold, limpers call and 3 of us see a Q32r flop. They check, I bet, first limper folds, villain calls.

Turn is a 4

Villain checks, I bet, he checkraises, I 3bet, he instantly 4bets...

What's his range? Is the correct play to keep raising and, if so, at what point do you put him on 65 and slow down?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-10-2006, 11:35 AM
nelly99 nelly99 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 166
Default Re: Live 15/30 top set hand

raise once more then call down
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-10-2006, 12:24 PM
JJH3984 JJH3984 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,876
Default Re: Live 15/30 top set hand

I think I just call down from the instant four-bet. If he was willing to put in lots of action with two pair or a set, or top pair, make a note of it for later.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-10-2006, 12:34 PM
JojoDiego JojoDiego is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: consistently wrong
Posts: 253
Default Re: Live 15/30 top set hand

[ QUOTE ]
at what point do you put him on 65 and slow down?

[/ QUOTE ]

6-5 or A-5

He could also be going wild here with a smaller set he slowplayed or spiked, or (less likely) a PP, or maybe even A-4 (is there a 2-flush on the board)? And, you've got some outs to beat a straight. So, I wouldn't mind putting 3 more bets in total (UI). Dumb question: Is it a 5- or 4-bet cap?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-10-2006, 01:12 PM
Ghazban Ghazban is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Gibbering incoherently
Posts: 5,805
Default Re: Live 15/30 top set hand

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
at what point do you put him on 65 and slow down?

[/ QUOTE ]

6-5 or A-5

He could also be going wild here with a smaller set he slowplayed or spiked, or (less likely) a PP, or maybe even A-4 (is there a 2-flush on the board)? And, you've got some outs to beat a straight. So, I wouldn't mind putting 3 more bets in total (UI). Dumb question: Is it a 5- or 4-bet cap?

[/ QUOTE ]

No cap HU; 5-bet cap multiway. I think the turn card was the same suit as the queen so there was now a flush draw possible but I discounted the possibility of any flush draw other than 32s (i.e. 2 pair with the flush draw) since people in that game seemed to be too passive to put in that much action with a draw. Of course, this guy could've been the exception. I felt a lower set or straight were the most likely holdings for him when he instantly 4bet but wasn't too confident in that read as he'd just sat down and I don't have enough limit experience to have a good feel for what an unknown is capable of.

Anyway, I called the 4bet (instantly regretting it) and a 6 hit the river (no flush). He bet again and I just called. I was going to (obviously) raise a board-pairing river and possibly (like 50% likely if it felt right) any non-A,5,6 river as well, calling a 3-bet if that happened. I was also going to bet any river if checked to and make a decision if checkraised based on the card and whatever felt right (probably calling a lot of the time). Good/bad river plan?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-10-2006, 01:16 PM
SixForty SixForty is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,258
Default Re: Live 15/30 top set hand

Being an unknown, it's tough to balance his range here. Since he waited until the turn to raise, I think that either the turn helped him, or that he felt he was strong enough on the flop to slowplay.

If he felt he was strong on the flop, then either 33 or 22 are a big part of his range. He could also just be over aggressive with a big Q, like AQ or KQ, or even QJ if he's really aggressive. If he's super loose preflop, he might have 32s. I would discount somewhat all the non-set hands that I just mentioned though, since his play doesn't fit the normal way most people would play those hands (ie, most don't limp 32s, most raise AQ preflop, and most aren't taking something like KQ to 4-bets on the turn here)

If the turn helped him, then we are looking at 44, 43, A5, and 65. All 4 of these hands could easily be played the way that Villain played, even if he was sane.

So I think that you are probably ahead here. But I think that 4-bets is very close to the pivot point of value - the fulcrum if you will. And by that, I mean, it is the point where a raise from you stops getting value because he will only call with most hands worse than yours, but will reraise again with most hands better than yours.

So with position here, I'll just call the 4-bet now. Since he acts first on the river, you can ensure that at least one bet goes in there. If he bets, call. If he checks, bet. If the board pairs, you can raise his bet then.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-10-2006, 02:23 PM
JJH3984 JJH3984 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,876
Default Re: Live 15/30 top set hand

Also remember that as he keeps raising, his range narrows; thus, unless you have the nuts or he is a complete maniac, each extra bet you put in is worth less and less in terms of EV. 5 Bets is probably around when it becomes about 0 EV against an unknown.

An example: you flop middle set on a ragged board, the first bet you put in is worth almost the whole bet, the 12th is probably losing you money.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-10-2006, 06:35 PM
Ghazban Ghazban is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Gibbering incoherently
Posts: 5,805
Default Results

Not fantastically interesting, but he had 43s for turned two pair. At the time, I felt like I left some bets on the table.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-10-2006, 06:52 PM
SeaEagle SeaEagle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 1,366
Default Re: Results

[ QUOTE ]
Not fantastically interesting, but he had 43s for turned two pair. At the time, I felt like I left some bets on the table.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine. Hopefully you had plenty of times to collect extra bets after this hand [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Especially live, 4 bets on this board is going to mean a straight a whole lot of the time and it'll suck to get 6-bet on the turn if that's the case.

I also don't like your plan of raising a safe-ish river. Make sure 1 bet goes in - no more, no less.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-10-2006, 07:43 PM
chesspain chesspain is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 8,277
Default Re: Live 15/30 top set hand

I think you played it fine.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.