Why would online poker sites not rig their games?

[MyTurn2Raise]

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Regarding MT2R's post: "Huge" is not a number and is subjective. Are we talking 200 hands? 1000 hands? 2000 hands?

Since you were only dealing with all in situations you made the whole process a lot more complex then it needed to be. That doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong only that it is more complex then it should be. For example why introduce a PRNG when it wasn't necessary? That could be the source of the error right there.

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hundreds of thousands of allin confrontations


a PRNG was absolutely necessary
there isn't a statistical distribution that was applicable to test against....I had to use a Monte Carlo

I specifically thought allins were rigged--that would be easiest to do and I had noticed something during play--my stats suggest to me, with a decent amount of credibility, that they are

[Henry17]

Maybe I missed something so correct me if I'm wrong.

You were comparing all in situations when two players went all in pre-flop and you wanted to test to see if the weaker hand won more then it should?

[nineinchal]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Regarding MT2R's post: "Huge" is not a number and is subjective. Are we talking 200 hands? 1000 hands? 2000 hands?

Since you were only dealing with all in situations you made the whole process a lot more complex then it needed to be. That doesn't mean it is necessarily wrong only that it is more complex then it should be. For example why introduce a PRNG when it wasn't necessary? That could be the source of the error right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

hundreds of thousands of allin confrontations


a PRNG was absolutely necessary
there isn't a statistical distribution that was applicable to test against....I had to use a Monte Carlo

I specifically thought allins were rigged--that would be easiest to do and I had noticed something during play--my stats suggest to me, with a decent amount of credibility, that they are

[/ QUOTE ]

What are the numbers and related percentages? If we can get a large enough sample it can be proven whether or not they are rigged. I was speaking to a friend of mine who is in the industry, and he believes there is much too great a chance that there is too much incentive for it not to be rigged.

Personally, I play solely on stars now , and have found it to be legit. However, my results on FT are definitely losing, and very different from anything I achieved on stars, pacific, party, or plain old live. So I always thought that there is some sort of bias there. However, since I only track my money wins and losses, I could never prove that FT is rigged.

Anyway, I digress; my point is really that there is probably enough data to prove which sites are legit and which are scams from 2+2 users. Who can intitiate a project like that? I would be willing to contribute to the right people thru the forums, once they can demonstrate their competency and credibility.

Perhaps we should start another thread for a project like this?

[MyTurn2Raise]

not only preflop,
flop and turn as well

Yes, I tested to see how often the better hand was holding up

over hundreds of thousands of allins, it wasn't doing a great job



the biggest problem i have is repeated hands in my data sets

i also have an issue with multiple players all in


however, the results were VERY far from being close to even



also scary is how often the obviously winning reg runs below expectation on allins


EDIT: right now, the preponderance of the evidence in my mind points to things being fishy. HOwever, much more data is needed and independent confirmations for it to be a widespread panic. I'm also conflicted because I still win and don't want to bite the hand that feeds me.

[Tuff_Fish]

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Why on earth do people still try and convince these donks?

Surely the last fifty threads on this have shown that they never actually read anybody's arguments and it's the biggest waste of time since... well, ever.

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One or more of these overseas sites could be rigged in some way and you would never know. Never, never, never, never.

All the statistics you could ever gather will never prove it one way or the other.

The only way you will ever know that a site was really rigged is if they have a falling out of thieves, or somebody gets inside and learns enough to blow the whistle.

For now, you are going on faith alone.

Tuff

[Henry17]

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not only preflop,
flop and turn as well

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Ok that explains a lot. I would have started with just testing heads up all in preflop situations. It would make it much easier and if it is rigged then is should show up. No need for a PRNG for heads up data since you can know the distribution.

[Josem]

As always, where I refer to poker sites, I mean major poker sites (FTP, Stars, Party)

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I'm sort of surprised at the presumption of innocence many of you have towards on-line poker. I understand that it is an industry under threat and one which you wish to protect, however, we are dealing with CASINOS here. An industry traditionally with mob ties and not above employing tactics such as coolers against players who win too much. So in the on-line version you think they're above doom/boomswitching you?

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I think my view and logic on this is broadly reflective of many high volume players on 2p2:

a) Many people with questionable poker skills claim that online poker is rigged

b) The people who claim online poker is rigged continually fail to provide any evidence to support their claims

c) I've never seen evidence that online poker is being cheated at a major site (obviously excluding Absolute Poker, which does not fit (a) or (b) above)

d) I generally don't believe things that I have no reason to believe

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To me this concept of a benevolent poker site operator who adopts a laisser faire attitude and is just happy to collect the standard rake is quite naive really.

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Of course it is possible that online poker is rigged. These sites entire operation is based upon the quality of their brand, and I doubt that a major site will risk tainting that.

The entire argument in favour of poker sites being rigged in this thread seems to be that they have a motive. This is just very bad thinking.

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Anyways, let the blind sheep proceed to the slaughter. I myself will continue to play but in the full awareness that
certain aspects are potentially/probably rigged and under no pretense that the site is 100% on the up and up.

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you manage to quantify that things are probably rigged? I don't understand what evidence makes you believe this.